Is the black gold layup appropriate for our rivers

[wally]

I am exploring options for a lighter canoe. i see kevlar layups and kevlar with carbon fiber layups. it seems that the black gold is a lot tougher and able to withstand some punishment like running the caddo or the buffalo or the lil missouri. this would be in a 13 or 14 foot light whitewater canoe like a bell wildfire or such. anyone have experiences they could share on how well these two layups would do with the rocks which always seem to be there.
thank you for sharing
wally

[Cowper]

There is probably a limited knowledge base for this material in this part of the country - folks who portage in areas like the Boundary waters would be more likely to spring for the extra cost in order to take advantage of the lighter weights.

If you google "black gold canoe", you can find several threads on paddling.net discussing the material.

The general wisdom seems to be that it can take some rocks, but don't "abuse" the canoe by dragging it up on shore, ramming the bank head-on (instead, come in sideways and step out), etc.

Generally kevlar (and probably the black gold) boats can probably take more rock strikes than you would think, but if you get in a full-on broached or pinned situation, then I would fear you would do damage that while repairable, would add weight to your boat during the repair process.

My suggestions:
1) Call the company and discuss it with one of their product experts
2) Look for boat reviews on paddling.net, or start your own thread on paddling.net so you can access those boaters in parts of the country where composite materials are more popular
3) If you get the boat, paddle something else when the water is very low
4) Be aware that often composite boats will be much faster, but somewhat less stable, than the exact same model in an ABS or royalex type layup. The model name may be the same, but I've been told they generally paddle like two different models. So if you are concerned about stability, try to demo on a lake somewhere before you buy...

There is probably a black gold or lightweight kevlar boat in my future - just got to figure out which toys to buy first...

[Louiscov]

Wally:

A buddy here in north La. has two Bell boats in black gold. Very graceful and smoooooooth handling. If you want to PM me your email I'll send it to him and ask him to reply to you.

Cowper pretty much nailed it, and totally dead on is his comment "Generally kevlar (and probably the black gold) boats can probably take more rock strikes than you would think, but if you get in a full-on broached or pinned situation, then I would fear you would do damage that while repairable, would add weight to your boat during the repair process."

I paddled a gel coated kevlar Old Town Canadienne in the 80's and 90's on the Buffalo, Ouachita, Caddo and loved its speed and handling. As the gel coat wore we did several fiberglass patches to protect the kevlar. And, two pinnings and one "boof" spiderwebbed the gelcoat and bubbled the kevlar on the inside. All were repairable with fiberglass. If you baby them, walk a lot, and are very careful it may be a great boat. But paddling one is as sweet as it gets. I now have a 14 ft. carbon/kevlar solo boat but I would leave it off these streams except the Buffalo at good water or maybe the Ouachita Remmel float. Like Cowper suggested, ask this question on paddling.net at the link below to get a broad geographical experience pool. Please let us know what you do.

http://www.paddling.net/message/showTop ... fid=advice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lou]

Wally,

I have a BG Bell Flashfire. I have paddled it on Jack's Fork and Big Creek in MO. Handled both fine. Took a pretty big hit on a boulder in one of the shut in, rock gardens on Big Creek. No visible damage. The clear gel coat will scratch easily on rocks. Most BG boats are really beautiful craft, and expensive. Many owners would never take them where they might be scratched and dinged. But, I ain't a leave them on the shelf kind. These sweet boats beg to be watered.

With normal conditions I would feel comfortable taking it on most Ozark float streams. With high water, adding floatation bags would reduce major structural damage to the hull and gunwales from swift current leveraging on submerged hulls. Second thought, better just leave it home and grab something designed to handle the bigger, faster, rock studded water.

You just can't get around at least a 2 to 3 boat stable.

[wally]

Well i bought another boat. a 13 foot mohawk solo that weighs 37 pounds. obviously the black gold layup is not for this section of the country. thanks for the input from everyone.
wally

[Cowper]

I’m really glad if this discussion helped you figure out which boat best meets your needs, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say “the black gold layup is not appropriate for this section of the country”.

Remember,

There is probably a black gold or lightweight kevlar boat in my future - just got to figure out which toys to buy first...

and

A buddy here in north La. has two Bell boats in black gold. Very graceful and smoooooooth handling.
I paddled a gel coated kevlar Old Town Canadienne in the 80's and 90's on the Buffalo, Ouachita, Caddo and loved its speed and handling….
If you baby them, walk a lot, and are very careful it may be a great boat. But paddling one is as sweet as it gets…

and

I have a BG Bell Flashfire. I have paddled it on Jack's Fork and Big Creek in MO. Handled both fine. Took a pretty big hit on a boulder in one of the shut in, rock gardens on Big Creek. No visible damage. The clear gel coat will scratch easily on rocks. Most BG boats are really beautiful craft, and expensive. Many owners would never take them where they might be scratched and dinged. But, I ain't a leave them on the shelf kind. These sweet boats beg to be watered.

With normal conditions I would feel comfortable taking it on most Ozark float streams...

I hate to end this thread with the general conclusion that these boats are “inappropriate” for us, because I don’t think that was what we were trying to say. These boats are very fine Ferrari’s. They cost a bundle, and they reward the owner with Ferrari-like performance. Yes, the Ferrari would need to be treated differently should not be used on every one of our Arkansas back roads. If you are lucky enough to own one, you’ll still need to have a pick-up truck for bouncing around on the dirt roads and through the fields...

A Ferrari would be fine and fun to drive on I-40, Highway 7, and many other roads around our state, but not what you want on the Cossatot shuttle road or the Forest Service roads leading to Richland creek.

The black gold layup would be wonderful on any flatwater paddle, the Buffalo, and many other rivers at any moderate water level, but not the best choice for things like the Big Piney, the Mulberry, the Upper Little Missouri, or our harder WW streams.