Wetsuit vs drysuit

[Van]

I was just wondering what is the general opinion on which is better for winter in Arkansas rivers. I like my fullbody wetsuit for most of the time when the water is cold. I haven't tried much in the way of drysuits, but the couple I tried on seemed kind of restrictive. I have also heard that the wetsuit will hold up better than the drysuit to abuse.

[Cowper]

what is the general opinion on which is better for winter in Arkansas rivers.

Since you say "opinion", and "winter", my answer is hands-down, no contest, not even close, not in the same league - GORE TEX DRYSUIT

A small percentage of folks never can get used to the neck gasket. You might have a latex allergy (relatively rare I think). You need to be very careful to not get sunscreen on the latex (normally not an issue in winter paddling), and of course no gasoline or petrochems, which are bad for wetsuits, too, just not as devastating. But except for those seals (which can be replaced), the drysuit is probably more durable than you think.

In a wetsuit, if you swim, you still get cold. Not with a drysuit. The drysuit is more versatile - change the layering, and it can take me from sub-freezing to 70 degrees in total comfort (except for my hands). You should be careful walking through briars - you would do that in a wetsuit or even bluejeans. Flexibility in the drysuit is far better than with a full body drysuit.

The difference is so great, that when someone new gets a drysuit, I always try to get them to jump in the water and swim around their first time out, just so they will fully appreciate why it was worth the money. You have to feel it to believe and fully understand it. (It's also a good safety drill, because you learn why it is important to "burp" the extra air out of your suit.)

The wetsuit does give you a little bit of protection against rocks during a swim, I'll give it that.

Phrases frequently heard from drysuit owners include: "Worth every penny I paid" and "the best piece of boating gear I ever bought".

If I am paddling flatwater where an upset is very unlikely, I might wear "land-lubber" clothing for even more comfort and carry a change of clothes for safety, but when I venture into anything where I know water gear is in order, it is ALWAYS with the drysuit in winter. My wetsuits are dry rotting in a closet.

I'm NOT dissing' those who use wetsuits, whether because their opinion is different than mine, or due to the high initial cost of the drysuit; but I will be suprised if anyone who has owned both replaced a worn-out drysuit with a new wetsuit, unless it was in combination with a decision to not paddle in cold weather any more. I suppose "kid started college" or "multiple hobbies, too many toys needed" could also come into play. But that doesn't make the wetsuit "better", it just makes it an appropriate compromise and better than not going paddling at all in winter.

You said the suits you tried felt "restrictive". On the charts, I'm at the high end of a Medium. I wear a large, the Medium IS restrictive - typical paddling motions cause it to tug at the shoulders, and I can barely wiggle in and out of the thing. I've also known a few people of non-average shape (like stout for their height) that needed to custom-order a suit to get one that didn't have excessive length in the arms or legs. If you're in-between or even close to the border, go with the larger size. If you're very non-average in proportions, talk to someone like OOO (or Pack Rat if in NW Arkansas) about potentially custom ordering.

[TC]

Yep, to what Cowper said. Kayak Academy is having a sale on Kokatat drysuits. I'm 6' 200# and ordered a XL Kokatat GFER. Should get it in next week. Now I need to go to OOO and get me some of those 5.10 water tennies.

[panicman]

The key word here is wet vs dry in winter. I like to be dry.

[Eric Esche]

This is from a convert to drysuits who wore neoprene wetsuits for over 30 years, and from someone who got kidded a lot because I wore my wetsuit or parts of it even until late June or early July, as I would rather sweat than be cold, and back then, I was paddleing up to 250 days a year.

I started paddleing in 1968 with no wetsuit and quickly got a wet suit. I paddled year round, got cold easily, and had retrieved bodies of folks who had died from hypothermia. I considered a neoprene wetsuit as life insurance with the side benefit of floating higher and bouncing off things better when I did swim things I had not planned on swimming. IF they had drysuits back then, I had not heard of them and they were not made from breathable fabrics.

I held off getting a dry suit (and kept getting wetsuits) when drysuits first came out as the early ones were not made from breathable fabrics and had reputations for tearing seals, and having to patch leaks, and overly tight neck seals that did not trim well. They have come a long ways as the technology of seals, fabrics, zippers, and construction techniques improved.

I finally got a used drysuit 6 years ago and luckily got a Kokatat Goretex drysuit. Spelling and listing errors on the eBay auction allowed me to get it with little competition for less than $100. It has lasted well, and other than having to replace the neck seal which was already torn when I got it used, it has been perfect. I used it for two years before replacing the neck seal as I do not turn over very much. Got a few other dry suits as loaners, (when the price was right), of varous brands and fabrics, and learned that you do get what you pay for. I fully expect to get many more years out of my Kokatat drysuit as it is showing little sign of aging, unlike my neoprene wetsuits. I tend to be rough on gear, but most of my wet suits did not last more than 5-10 years. Even with the best of care, neoprene wetsuits tend to shrink with age and become less flexible with age. I have measured this shrinkage, and it is not just me getting fatter with age or any one brand. My wife and I have given away most of our old neoprene gear and it had to go to folks who were one to 3 sizes smaller than we were when we bought it.

While you can wear wetsuits, the difference between them and dry suits is VERY significant. Drysuits are way more comfortable if properly sized and they do not "wear you out" fighting their restrictions and energy loss like a neoprene wetsuit can with repeated exposure where new water is entering the suit and you keep having to heat it up. IF you can not take the neck seal constriction of a latex drysuit neck seal, I would consider getting a breathable semi-dry suit with a neoprene neck seal before going back to a wet suit. If you are not being constantly immersed at the neck, and have hydrophobic clothing underneath, a little leakage is manageable, and still way more comfortable than a wetsuit.

I have not found anything "as good as" a Kokatat Gore-tex drysuit so far. As a former textiles major who has tried to keep up with the evolution of breathable fabrics, I am willing to admit that there may be new fabrics coming along that may match or even surpass Gore-tex someday, but until my Kokatat Gore-tex suit wears out (or I find something at the right price), I am unlikely to be doing much practical research without someone loaning me something in size XL to compare it to. I recommend Kokatat drysuits because I like the ergonometric design features of their suits, think that their construction is stronger, and have not seen any other brands that are lasting as long or as well.

The only thing I use the wetsuits for now is roll practice at the swimming pool where I need some core insulation for standing chest deep for 2.5 hours, and as a loaner to folks who have nothing else and still want to go and do not fit my other loaner gear.

I wear a thin rash guard and polypropylene thermals or polyester fleece layers under my drysuit as needed for temperatures and I feel safe in case a seal leaks, which they never have, so far, as they are all hydrophobic fabrics.

If the drysuit you tried on was more restrictive than your wetsuit, you probably need to try one a size or two larger. Most dry suits are sized to your normal measurements to allow for a layer or two of fleece type clothing underneath, but if in doubt, go up a size.

I also wear a larger size wetsuit bootie (size 13.5 vs 11) in winter to allow more layers of socks without compressing them and losing the insulative value. Getting off the river with dry feet that have feeling vs ones that look like blue/white prunes and that have no feeling or have that burnng hurt as they warm back up, is nice.

like buying a boat you haven't paddled, try to find some kind person to loan you one in your size if at all possible, before laying out that much cash as an experiment. Be really careful putting it on and taking it off with the seals and slide the seals up and down until they are smooth and try not to grab them on the edge. I would not loan one without a "you break it you replace it agreement" which I think most folks would agree with, so know that borrowing gear can be expensive too. I try to work a finger up under the entire length of a seal before I try to stretch or move it and not roll it as this make it just that much harder to stretch. Latex seals will destroy themselves if exposed to bug spray or sun tan lotion. They slide on and off easier if treated with DuPont 303 on both sides, and this is the only thing recommended to treat them as a preservative. Would not treat anyone else's gear unless they approved of it first. Zippers tend to slide and seal better with treated with zipper wax. I keep some of each in my ammo box, just like I used to keep Neoprene glue and patch fabric with a wetsuit. Pinholes from being poked with saw briars or barbed wire can usually be treated with a very small/smooth dab of clear wetsuit glue on both sides. Never had one in my suit yet, but have helped others a half dozen times. There is a 2 piece plastic tube ring type device that can slide under the neck seal to reduce the constriction force on your throat when the seal force is not needed, that some divers use when on the boat, but you have to remember to slip it out and adjust the seal before immersion. I had one, but it proved to be enough hassle that I gave it to someone else. Now that I have a new neck seal, I may get another one to help stretch the seal a bit, rather than trimming it.

Drysuits do cost more. But if you are more comfortable, you are more likely to use it more as you do more paddleing. Quality gear that you can rely on is rarely a bad investment, unless you fail to use it.

Hope to see you on the water and that this post helps you in some way.

Eric Esche

[hfunkhouser]

Will this do the job for me? Will be my first drysuit....look like a good deal, or should I just wait till next year when I can afford the Gortex?

Kokatat T3 Swift Entry Dry Suit, Men's Tropos 3-Layer waterproof / breathable dry suit, T3SE


http://www.kayakacademy.com/Store/KOKT3SE.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ckuntz]

If you can afford to wait..
Save every penny for Kokatat Gmer drysuit. It will pay for itself 10 times over and,IMO, you will not be wishing you had purchased one if you didn't. You will thank yourself... Makes paddling in cold weather tolerable and extends your paddling season.

Chris

[TC]

Gortex is the best. But you can get the same suit with drysocks cheaper if look under their DRYSUIT SALE KOKATAT DRYSUIT BARGAINS.

[hfunkhouser]

OK I see it now.
Thanks.

[Karla]

I have paddled in the spring to early fall with wetsuit. But when I got a chance I bought the goretex kokatat full drysuit. I hated removing a wetsuit and it was smelly thing to remove. Now with the drysuit, I just remove it and my clothes under it are clean and dry. Now I am able to paddle year round and we have had good amount of rain this fall and winter. For the first time, I paddled a river with icicles hanging on the sides of the river. That was cool. I have swam in the drysuit and was dry and not cold. Think it also protected me from the rough swims on the rocks. Only thing don't expect it to protect your face and nose I love the drysuit and so glad I saved money for it.

Karla

[Van]

Thanks for all the input. I might have to go back and look at drysuits again.