Whitewater and Fear

[waterhog]

whitewater and fear its different for everyone some charge with the mind set that everything will be alright at the bottom and for some select few it is but there are those who carry memorys with them down the river or have heard storys about the death hole. I know everyone has there limits although some might not think so I do but i also belive that some look at say for instance a manky rapid but it has a clean line in it some may see only the dangers and not the line is this fear that causes this tunnel vision toward only the dangers or is it something else say an active imagination that causes the person to only see doom.

Im one of those that carry memorys with them

thoughts?

[Mike_P]

I think it has to do with a mix of your previous experiences, willingness to take risk, and whether you have taken a swiftwater rescue course.

[SteveGabbard]

I think it starts with whether or not you tend to be an optomist or pessimist in general. Then layer on things like bad experiences and if you carry them with you. Also how much confidence you have in your abilities. Etc, etc... Probably alot of factors involved.

In Doug Ammons book Whitewater Philosophy he has three chapters on Fear. He covers probably more than you want to know on the subject. It's a good read

[Half Ton]

BUT, the whitewater actually fears chuck Norris I heard!

[jonest]

Scott Hanshaw once told me to look where you want to go, not where you do not want to go. Amazingly true. Therefore, I think one has to train themself to look for the clean line.

[Victor Caballeros]

I'm no Chuck Norris!!! I have lot's of FEAR I do like air

I get the Freaking out factor while i'm upside down. I had man to man with a rock in the face.... The rock won and almost knocked me out. I saw bright lights under water and felt the warm fuzzies time slowed down and than woke up! It scared the $hit out of me!

[Mark or Hayden]

Think about all the successes (NOT the failures) to date to give you confidence in what lies ahead.

[davidbob]

I think the short answer to your question is that fear can diminish your skills by causing passivity (e.g., "gunwale grabbing"). You have to manage "fear" and not let it keep you from staying aggressive, keeping your paddle in the water, and refusing to give up.

(Or, you could just follow the RBF's lead and know your limits (Redding to Turner Bend ain't called The Poonanny Run for nothin')).

P.S. I want major props (especially from Dale) for staying out of Chuck's What's In A Name thread.

[Fish]

One of the best stories I ever read about extreme whitewater is Bill Kirby's "Dancing With Death on the Meadow River." Originally in AW Journal, but you can find it in this excellent book: http://www.amazon.com/Rivers-Collection ... B000BMZ03Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I go back and read that one every year. At least once. If you run class 4-5 water for very much time, it'll speak to you too I bet. I couldn't really relate to it until two events happened to me: in the course of one season, I got pulled under an undercut from which I was lucky to emerge and I stalled on a 25 foot fall and penciled into 5 feet of water and the creek bottom. My perception of Kirby's story changed along with my risk equation.

I think how a padder approaches fear is always a combination of your mindset, your experiences, and your situation. I agree that a positive mindset will take you far - you will often nail a line if you can see yourself running that line... and vice-versa. I'm not sure I've ever run into someone with a negative mindset on class 4+ runs - at least not after their first one.

But your experiences change your perception of the risks over time. Few paddlers indeed will run any rapid where they think the chance of serious injury or death is 50%! At at about 10% chance (by mental reckoning, or what I call the "risk equation") the number willing to go for it is still incredibly small. At 1% chance... a lot more will take the plunge. If I run into anyone for which that number appears to always be zero percent, I don't follow their line. As experience accumulates, skills generally go up and the perception of that chance of risk goes up as well. Whether skills or risk perception is the greater at any point in a paddler's "career" is what mostly dictates what they will and won't run. It factors heavily into their risk equation.

And finally, your situation makes a big difference. Situation on the river is an obvious one. Is the rest of your group really strong or really shaky? How nasty is the hike out if you get hurt? How long before dark? Etc. Etc. Experience is, of course, key to that too, and a paddlers decision to run or portage can and should depend on a lot besides their personal fear. And the situation off the river is a big deal too. I'm a different paddler risk-wise now than in my 20's. I'm more skilled and more experienced than I was back then for sure, but with a wife and kids my calculation is very different at age 40. I'm not more afraid of that boulder sieve or waterfall - in fact I'm often more confident I can clean it now. But my risk equation is different and the fear I feel looking at a drop is only one input in that. My 20-something year-old self would probably have not understood that well at all - I just thought most of the married guys over 35 were chicken. ;-)

Man, it feels good to talk about creek paddling when there's none to be had around here. But I sure wish we'd get some rain and I'd get some time. My limits may be quite a bit lower than they used to be, but I still sure like to test them from time to time!

- Fish

[Fish]

I think the short answer to your question is that fear can diminish your skills by causing passivity (e.g., "gunwale grabbing"). You have to manage "fear" and not let it keep you from staying aggressive, keeping your paddle in the water, and refusing to give up.

Man, that's a great way way to put it Davy Bob: refuse to give up. Maybe the biggest factor in running risky whitewater consistently is to be able to do all of your giving up before you get in your boat and launch into the rapid. If you don't think you'll stay calm, portage with style. Once you're running the drop, you ain't getting off until the ride comes to a complete stop. The best padders I've been around are the ones who can launch and keep paddling with calm resolve until they reach the eddy at the bottom - no matter how much their plans come apart and how much poo is hitting the fan.

- Fish

[Karla]

As many may know I had a face to face with a rock that broke my nose and big gash on top requiring stitches. Thought I was ready to attempt some class 3 on the Esses. If I were to go back today I made most of the rapids I think one swim at zig zag, one in the esses and last one (3rd) one below the esses that broke the nose. I feel I could run it better than I did not letting it discourage me cause that is who I am. I am fearful of heights but not as fearful of water but I do respect whitewater. Besides raquetball in the past, paddling is what I love.

I admit first time 2 weeks later on Cadron I was a little gun shy with my nose. Have tried two face protection helmets that I wasn't comfortable enough with them that didn't work as I was hoping they would for one reason or another. I have ordered another helmet with a face area with steel all around to try it and see if it will work. Someone else I was told wears one of these.

I will not be back anytime too soon on the esses and definitely not on the falls. I will still be working harder on my skills. I think before what stopped me from surfing as much and trying more eddies was the fear I might hit my face and then that happend. So with full face protection esp. now after one broken nose and stitches I will be much more comfortable with those moves. Still working on my roll as I can sometimes in my hero sometimes not. I can roll an RPM consistently. As one person I know will tell you I am very persistent trying to roll and not giving up even with some pain issues I have.

As David Bob said , I refuse to give up.

SYOTR

Karla

[okieboater]

One of my kayaking heroes is Mary DeReimer. I remember setting in a eddy on Ecuador's Lower Mish scared ****less and Mary giving me the "in my face" pep talk and showing me the line that to this day gives me one of my best ever kayaking days memory. knowing that her hubby Phil was setting there below the drop for safety to pull me if needed out helped too.

That day self confidence was key to success. Doing what Mary told me to do and she knew I could do it - gave me confidence to make the run look easy. To this day I think confidence has a lot to do with fear. If you think you are gonna fail, you probably will.

Here is one URL to Mary's comments on how to handle fear.

http://www.performancevideo.com/book/export/html/122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope it works. If not google mary dereimer handling fear and there is a pdf out there complete with great illustrations that is good reading on how to handle fear kayaking.

[Karla]

Thanks for that info Dave. I will be seeing that or reading.

Karla

[cdavis]

I think pushing ourselves from our comfort zones allows us to grow and experience new joys in life. However, this must be within reason. That reason comes from getting as much info and education on the subject as you can first, and being honest with ourselves of our physical abilities before attempting the scary. I agree with a previous post, that education through a swift water rescue class goes miles in becoming more comfortable with anything water oriented. First be prepared, then be confident. "Get happy-Get paddlin' ".

[Heath]

Man there is lots of ways to look at this one. I have had a wife and kids the complete time that I have been boating, I have held back a few runs that I think I was capable of doing(at that Time) because of the risk for me and them. things are a lot different when your the one putting food on there table.

I have not been boating much Since Bobbys Death, and even less since the incedent at LMF. The erge to go is really stating to come back though, and I hope to get back to a confidence level that I used to have. I know that the last hard run I was on I swam in a spot that really should have never happend, I was really nervous going in that day, and it got the best of me.

Being able to see yourself run a clean line is always a good thing, but I also look at the fun to risk factor. Take Gorrila on the green, I was confident I could make the Line, but if things go wrong there it can get bad real fast(not so fun).

this is a really good thread Chuck glad you brought it up.