Need feedback: tents and morning fog/heavy dew

[Tim Eubanks]

We took our new Coleman tent out for a shakedown cruise this weekend. Finally found one that had vertical walls and lots of head space. Camped at Ozark campground on the Buffalo, guessing morning low was low 40's. Fog had burned off by the time I got up (hey, I'm on "vacation") but did notice fog in valleys as we drove to Jasper for breakfast.

Anyway........the underside of the fly was soaked and the roof of the tent had collected water that was dropping annoyingly onto my head. The fly had wetted through in the dew. Took the tent back today. Can't imagine a tent that can't stand up to fog making it through a rain storm.

Thoughts?

[cpresoz]

Sounds like a very high humidity, low temperature situation and possibly moist ground and maybe even gear inside the tent. Couple all of that with all of the moisture given off by the occupants and you'll get condensation unless you ventilate both the tent itself and the space between the permeable tent fabric and the impermeable fly. Did you have any windows or the door partially unzipped? Does the fly have any peak or ridge vents? You may have properly vented and it could just be a poor design tent for those conditions. Properly guying out the rainfly to increase the ventilation space between the fly and the tent also helps. The tent may perform satisfactorily in rain. Just didn't with air borne humidity.

[okieboater]

Well my experience over many decades with many tents, el Cheapo up to hi dollar mountain expedition quality tents is they all get wet on the underside of the fly and usually the tent bottom as well. In the Smokey Mountain areas sometimes inside rain from condensation after a night of sleeping - along the desert rivers of the South West big drops on undersides of the fly on many trips. I have had many nights with little to no condensation out west but many more wet fly undersides.

Was camped along the banks of the Colorado River last week, Ruby Horsethief West Water and one morning the tent fly was soaked, other mornings less so but damp to wet every morning.

Others in the group had same experience and all the tents were hi dollar cost tents not the coleman or walmart types.

cpresoz offers a good list of tips to reduce condensation issues, but even then be prepared for wetness. one of the things I like about the stand alone frame tents is I can pull off the fly and hang over a bush or rock etc to dry out in the morning sun and carefully put the rest of the tent on its side and both will dry in minutes most of the time. However, if the wind is blowing be sure to tie down tent and fly as I have seen several tents take unplanned trips across the beach.

[cpresoz]

Okie is right about even the most expensive tents suffering from condensation. Wait until you're in subzero temperatures and the humidity actually freezes and ice begins to rain down on the permeable inside fabric from above.

[okieboater]

One night last week I tested out a (for me at least) one of the hi dollar bivy bags that are supposed to be "as good as goretex" as I enjoy sleeping under the stars but sometimes sleeping bag gets wet from the dew. I got a Sierra Designs Dedean model.

The bivy was a pain to get into as the zipper does not go all the way to the bottom but this can be managed.


I was happy with the experience and next morning the outside of the bivy bag was dry. I thought I had a winner for sure.

took the bag out of the bivy and the top part of the sleeping bag was wet big time, turned the bivy bag inside out and it had water droplets all over.

So much for condensation issues even out west.

[Tim Eubanks]

This tent had about 3" of space between the tent and fly, roof is mesh. Can't imagine same result with fabric roof, water would have run downhill.

Only two of us in the tent, no wet gear, tent is 7' tall! I've had the frost inside the tent with a backpack tent in cold weather.

Given the clear night and zero chance for rain, what would have happened with no fly?

[cpresoz]

So much for condensation issues even out west.

And so much for "breathable".

[cpresoz]

Given the clear night and zero chance for rain, what would have happened with no fly?

Since it appears like it was condensation collecting on the underside of the fly and not dew settling on the tent, you might have been better off without the fly. The fly provided wind break and kept the temperature higher in the tent. But if the bag was good for the temperature, this may have worked out better. The more expensive tents focus on ventilation, but you can't beat a Coleman for volume at least cost.

[Tim Eubanks]

Whatever the case, I've off loaded the tent and am prepared to spend some dough on a real one. Looking at Kelty or Eureka, no mesh ceilings for me.

[okieboater]

For what it is worth Tim, here is some feedback as you look for a new tent.

The problems I have had with most tents are the fly treatment sticking together during storage to the point they are useless. Now I make sure tents are totally dry and keep them in air conditioning spaces. But I think some coatings handle storage better than others.

My Moss tent and both tarps have survived many years of hard use and storage in the garage with zero issues and still work. Same for REI tents.

I have a Big Agnes ultra lite tent and it got sticky after one season storage in the garage (replaced but took some debate). Same for a Marmot light weight solo tent (did not send it back). Love both tents but based on my experience the light weight fly treatments need to be stored inside air conditioned spaces. Or, maybe I got two bad tents.

I have had super luck with some very old Eureka Tents like the outfitter boy scout series, Moss, REI and a Alps Mountaineering which I store outside and no issues. I did have some sticky issues with a MSR light weight tarp - sent it back and instant replacement with no discussion.

Like I noted, be picky and look for a good coating, sturdy material, plenty of vents and above all store in a cool dry place inside the air conditioning for longest use.

[RomanLA]

I've had really good experiences with Kelty tents. I camped in Gulpha Gorge creek side in the remnants of a hurricane...still 70+ mph winds with just a few drops near the corner seams. That was with the factory waterproofing. I did some aftermarket stuff on the seams after that and never had problems again. I owned one Eureka in recent years and didn't like it at all. It was hard to setup and I had a pole break after very little use.

As mentioned above, ventilation is the key on any tent. I used a single wall tent in the Sierras and they're notorious for condensation. The only night I had real condensation problems was when it was raining and I had everything closed up tight. This combined with camping near a river with lots of fog, resulted in what seemed like rain in my tent when I woke up in the morning! lol I used the same tent for a week on the Middle Fork of the Salmon in Idaho and never had a problem, but I was able to leave the door of the fly open every night.

[GutIt]

Tents need to be absolutely stored hung and stretched. They can even be stored loosely piled up in a corner somewhere. But store them compressed and their shelf life will be greatly reduced and that is the fastest way to ruin a tent I have found. As Dave mentioned, their coatings will adhere to itself and you will progressively peel it off every time you pull it out. Tent body, fly and footprint.

There is not much way to minimize condensation if you are using a fly in the rain unless you have a ground to ground fly (which you already should) and lots of interior ventilation. Vestibules that can be staked way out, and leave your door mesh wide open. The tradeoff is that you have some condensation dripping, but not a river running through it from a heavy rain. If you are not expecting rain, leave off the fly and ventilate all your tent will allow and let your bedding take the brunt of keeping you warm.

Single wall tents were originally designed for extreme cold weather mountaineering. Not so much for our conditions here. Condensation will freeze and you can shake it out as ice droplets. Here, it is just a wet mess on the inside. And if it rains, the outside as well

In the early days of Gore-Tex, tents were tried, as were sleeping bags. They are not breathable nor will this technology allow that to happen. The reason is because it works on the body heat pushing moisture vapor through the breathable membrane. Since the distance between your body and the tent walls are so far, this cannot happen without body heat (and thus the “push”) dissipating. Pretty much the same for sleeping bags. So as of now, there are no “breathable” tents that can be zippered completely.

The best solution I have found is to get a tent that has tons of mesh. Yes, mesh roof and all. But, I have found a couple that have all of this mesh available and also have zippered closures for them all. You can zip it up tight, or vent the soup out of it. Some of these claim to be a “three season four season tent”! And they are as long as you have good enough bedding to leave them open and can take a little bit of less warmth. And again, if its that cold, the condensation will freeze on the tent roof and you can just shake it away. The fly should have vents as well. Mine has some that can be opened and a little Velcro peg thingy will prop it open. This is the best solution I have found, but I still get some condensation. I have found that if it is a windy night, and you use the fly to keep the wind speeds down in the tent, the condensation is reduced.

I like a lot of fresh air circulation in my tent anyway. I mainly use my tent in these parts to keep out of the ‘skeeters, crawlies, and just to have another possible roof. If it is raining hard overnight, I’ll stay drier with a fly that I would if I were sleeping in the open, but there is always some moisture inside in the morning. As an aside, the tent I am presently using will stand with just the fly, poles and the footprint, completely doing away with the tent body. This keeps the rain out, and the condensation down considerably. But suffers as far as retained warmth.

[okieboater]

lots of good stuff on tents already mentioned and Terry pretty much covers the last part of our tent discussion.

Here is my favorite all around tent and the one I use the most. I am a gear nut and have more tents than I will ever wear out.

http://www.rei.com/product/794294/rei-half-dome-2-tent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Except my tent is the previous version and has a bunch of years use, still works just fine. My opinion, just the right size for one person even tho they say it is for two. I have slept dry through some Colorado big time rain and wind storms. Venting is good but fly still will condense air moisture depending on the humidity. Looks like the latest version has more mesh, a better pole set up and it feels a tad bigger with the cross pole (a good thing)! I was just at Grand Junction REI and checked out the current version. If my current half dome ever has problems, the newer version would be what I would order in a New York minute. They also make a bigger version but I have not actually seen it.

REI gives you a 10 percent dividend on your actual purchase total at the end of the year, so actual price is reduced by 10 percent. They are a CO-OP and have done this dividend payment for decades. If any issues no questions asked on returns or at least I have never heard of a replacement problem even when someone just did not like the color etc when they got the actual product in their hands.

Tim, recommend you at least check this tent out in the size that fits your needs. I bet you get a lot of recommendations soon as others start reading this thread. Lots of good tents these days.

Read the reviews. Some good some not so good. But overall they will give you some good feedback on the tent.

[paddledog]

Atmospheric conditions will cause the inside of all flys to condensate.
Two things will help with this.
Venting and angle of pitch of the roof.
Venting has been discussed but not the angle of the fly.
The greater the pitch the more it will drip to the edge and run off.

[Tim Eubanks]

Reading all the comments makes me think any tent would have been wet on the inside/underside given the ground fog we had that morning. This tent had a fairly flat roof. We liked to room and relative ease of set up. Hmmmmm.