Ethics Question for Those Who Like Creeks

[Josh Sanford]

Paddler A loans a paddle to Paddler B for use on a steep creek that both A & B are paddling todether. Paddler B braces against the creek bottom in some rough water and the paddle snaps in two.

Additional Facts:
The paddle was old.
Paddler B is less experienced than Paddler A.
Paddler A has considerably more disposable income than Paddler B.

What dollar amount, if any, should Paddler B pay to Paddler A for the replacement of the paddle? (Or would you express this as a percentage of the cost of the replacement paddle?) If Paddler B doesn't volunteer the money, should Paddler A ask for him for the money?

Do you need more facts?

Please let me hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

[anthony]

Galla is a money pit. Watched the same sernerio paly out with a new jackson hero, and it was a demo with no warranty, 2 weeks ago.

If i broke your paddle i would at least replace it. just sayin.

[ckuntz]

Might help to ask a lawyer...

[anthony]

Might help to ask a lawyer...

BAAAAAAHAHAHA!!!

[Josh Sanford]

Anthony, who said anything about Galla?

Kuntz, don't you know that lawyers just wet their finger and see which way the wind is blowing?

[Ate My Lunch]

Paddler A loans helmet to Paddler B

Paddler B has upside-down slammer-jammer at Roadblock

Paddler B cracks loaned helmet of Paddler A

Paddler B asks for Paddler A to loan him another helmet

Paddler A loans Paddler B yet another helmet

Paddler A really hopes Paddler B doesn't go upside-down

Paddler A really really hopes Paddler B buys his own damn helmet

(Paddler B is very thankful for his generous friends)

[Ate My Lunch]

Awwww.... Isn't that story heart-warming

[ckuntz]

Nice explanation Mr Phelps..

[relaxinrm]

chill on it. then when you break your current favorite paddle bust his balls for money. or....i have an old $20 harmony paddle he should buy you

[Jaytee]

Disparity in income has nothing to do with it and suggests that Paddler A is under some obligation to subsidize the paddling of other people "because he can." And if Paddler B can't paddle with people with money without thinking they owe him something, then he needs to find someone else to paddle with.

Now that that's off my chest... Of course he owes to replace what was broken on his watch. That being said, hopefully cool heads and kind hearts prevail, and if Paddler A agrees that the stick was old, maybe even vulnerable to breakage, etc. that he'll say "don't worry about it." That would be the classy thing to do. Or accept just a fraction of retail (or a used paddle off eBay or something).

Now, I assume this hypothetical has real players involved, who might or might not be on the board. So, if I've stepped on toes I'm sorry. Just giving my two cents on the question.

[Fish]

I was taught that you always try to return something in better condition that when you borrowed it. If you lose it or break it, you replace it with one at least as good. Only way you don't do that is when the person who loaned it to you insists that you shouldn't - for example, if you're trying to pay for a brand new paddle and they say "oh, that thing was 10 years old, so just replace it with an old used one." As the borrower, you don't make that suggestion though.

I should add that I didn't invent the above ethics myself. My dad and grandpa taught me by example. As a boy I had the idea that it would have pretty much killed my grandpa if someone didn't say "oh, you really didn't have to repair/clean/replace that!" when he returned anything he borrowed.

- Fish

[BEubanks]

I loan gear to students and friends, always (well, when I can remember to make the point) with the understanding that if lost or broken, they help repair or replace. In the case of one student who lost a paddle, we agreed on the approximate value as a piece of used gear, and she wrote me a check for that amount.

But if you didn't have any explicit agreement up front, and he doesn't offer, that gets sticky. Which do you value most, the friendship or cost of the paddle? Keep the broken paddle and next time he wants to borrow one, offer it as your loaner . . . with a smile . . . and then follow with a functional one.

Loaning stuff always has risks, but doing so reminds us that stuff is not what's most important. At least that's my philosophy.

[BMuu]

If I borrow something and break or loose it I would replace it, the only exception being if the owner didn't want me to.

[Eric Esche]

And I would like to say that Bill expensively holds to his up bringing and does what is right. His dad and grandad can be proud of him. HE definately has borrowing rights for trips on a NEW Zodi Hot water heater. I hope he gets to use it with his raft someday and I hope I am there to help him use it.

Eric Esche

[Roger]

Neither a lender nor borrower be. For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry. (Willie Shakespeare)

That said, if the blade was worth little or nothing and you like the person (you did loan it on request), forget about it.

Obviously, there appears to be more to the matter since you felt it was necessary to air it out on the board.