Grand Canyon Shutdown?

[Fish]

So what happens to rafters in the Grand if the government shuts down and the park is closed? Just curious.

Or maybe our representatives in congress will stop acting like pissy first graders and a shutdown won't happen... but I'm not holding my breath.

- Fish

[RandyJ]

There is quite a lively discussion about this over on http://www.mountainbuzz.com. Worth a quick read for those really interested. But I think the expected consequences are about what you might think, and that is, if you have a permit for a launch date during the shutdown, you're probably SOL. Not sure what it means for those that have already launched. Do they have to evacuate? Get evac'd?

Closer to home, shutdown probably has significant impact on the Buffalo...campgrounds closed, maybe more.

How do you "close" the Great Outdoors?

[Cowper]

How do you "close" the Great Outdoors?

Well, considering that most outdoor types are pretty independent-minded, I'd say you'd better start by not laying off your law enforcement branch. In fact, better hire more...

[Wildwood]

If they lock the gates, might be time for Chainsaws R Us to recruit more members?? I've got a couple of chainsaws to lend to the cause . . .

[hollohead]

from what I hear, they will put up signs like last time this hapened. My understanding is that the outfitters hope to just keep going. 90% of staff is supposed to be told to go home for NPS. Wont save any money in the long run becouse they will get backpay when they return. Of course the biggest problem is trash pickup. I feel bad for the outfitters, sure hope they can continue to operate. I will disregard any signs myself and enjoy the river as we always have.

[texasannie52]

Perhaps I can answer this question as I work for US Fish and Wildlife Service which is a federal funded program just like National Park Service. Each September, budgets are proposed and must be passed on so the federal programs such as NPS, USFWS, National Fisheries, Historic Places, National Libraries, etc are funded.

We have been told that more than likely the Federal Government will not pass the continuing resolution which is the budgeting for the Federal Programs - however, they have until midnight tonight to get it right. Funny thing is, in 5 months they have to do it again. The last time this happened was in 1995.

During a federally mandated shutdown, all services will be closed. If there are people on a river somewhere, then they will just have to run it and hope they are not injured. Those holding a permit to enter will have it cancelled and they may not use it. Campgrounds on national lands will be closed. The only people who will remain on will be the military (unpaid), law enforcement and some of the managers. Payroll may or may not be paid after the fact of having a furlough. Best to go with the thought of not being paid that way, if you are paid, then it is a nice surprise.

So, if you intended to go to the Buffalo River this weekend, might be better to cancel those plans and find somewhere else to play. Watch your news in the morning - if the annoucement is that a continuing resolution has passed, then head out for some fun. The government is open!

[Eric Esche]

And digging into my memories of the past, remember to not have any incriminating gloves, hacksaw blades, bolt cutters, Large wrenches, or chainsaw blades in your possession, in case someone else uses such things while you are there. In one case, they used leaking oil and grease from a bulldozer to trace it's use to the destruction of a barricade. Case was thrown out when it was also proved that the same equipment had also been rented by the USFS on contract, and there was no proof as to when the deposits had been left. CSI's are better today and they will go a long way to prove a case and metal tools can leave signature marks just like a fingerprint- just saying, do not get caught doing anything except having a good time running a free flowing river.

Eric Esche

[jermdog]

Living in Flagstaff that is a pretty lively debate here as well. So what they are going to do as of yesterday is shut down the park, but not lock the gates as there are people living in there. Also, the law enforcement officers will still be paid and patrolling. As far as launches go, if you're already out there they won't pull you off or anything and if you happen to be hiking in the park today, which would suck cause it's snowing btw, they won't look for you either.
I'm pretty curious because our training launch is 4/20, so if they don't get something figured out soon, I may be out my sweet part time job.

[Shep]

So am I hearing this right that Wildlands Firefighters would be sent home as well? And the rangers responsible for rescues? I know you can make the slippery slope argument, but I would say any employee that is an emergency responder as a major portion of their job (including river and climbing rangers) should be on the same level as the law enforcement rangers.

This is BS. Quit holding the budget hostage over condoms and carbon dioxide! :roll:

Shep

[texasannie52]

As I understand it, if a fire is going on - then there would be staff to monitor it, but not that many. No new prescribed fires would be set and no new ADs would be hired to watch/tramp the fires. Security/Law Enforcement will be on the job, but only there to protect buildings and lands of the US Government. You should be okay for April 20th as the only thing holding up the budget right now is planned parenthood. They just might make a compromise and get it on the table or cut it for more money.

[ARzach]

Living in Flagstaff that is a pretty lively debate here as well. So what they are going to do as of yesterday is shut down the park, but not lock the gates as there are people living in there. Also, the law enforcement officers will still be paid and patrolling. As far as launches go, if you're already out there they won't pull you off or anything and if you happen to be hiking in the park today, which would suck cause it's snowing btw, they won't look for you either.
I'm pretty curious because our training launch is 4/20, so if they don't get something figured out soon, I may be out my sweet part time job.

I wish my job did training on 4/20..

[FarPastGone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca6ERTxU ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jermdog]

According to the AZ daily sun, all rescues will be S&R, not the govt. funded park employees. Whatever, it's all such bulls**t anyway, it's hard to take serious.

[Eric Esche]

"If there are people on a river somewhere, then they will just have to run it and hope they are not injured. "

Sorry, That statement just does not fly up here. All the folks I paddle with assume they are at their own risk, from the start and take appropriate safety gear and first aid kits with them on every trip. The NPS rangers that we see on the Buffalo now are no longer known for rendering assistance, but for harrassing ALL boaters at the put-in's and the takeouts, and pulling up to gravel bar campouts with hands on their un-safetied semi-automatic pistols, and searching through a campsite of older folks like they were on patrol in Iraq assuming we are all hostiles. For the last two years have I rarely seen a friendly face or heard "How are y'all doing today?" like we used to. On the river cleanups we used to do, the NPS rangers were the nicest rangers I have ever met anywhere, and worked as hard as we did and they were really glad that we were working with them to help clean up the river. On the last river clean up I did, they were there more to take pictures, and document OUR work, were not well skilled paddlers, and seemed less than pleased to have volunteers and the "Friends of the Buffalo National River" there. Wasn't just my observation - heard others that day say the same thing.

Federales are not the only ones who do river rescue and private boaters would be a lot more likely to be the first ones there and better equipped and trained to deal with a river emergency than any of the rangers I have met. The new ones all have guns, but I have never seen a river emergency that needed one yet.

"So, if you intended to go to the Buffalo River this weekend, might be better to cancel those plans and find somewhere else to play. Watch your news in the morning - if the annoucement is that a continuing resolution has passed, then head out for some fun. The government is open![/quote]

I strongly disagree with the above opinion. I would urge folks to go NOW and support the liveries by hiring a shuttle if they are not allowed to continue their normal business of renting canoes. Not their fault what is going on with the budget. The river does not care if congress can not agree on how to fund the campgrounds, and the gravelbars are still open, even if the park campgrounds are closed.

But everyone is entitled to have an opinion, so make your own decisions as you see fit.

Eric Esche

[Shark Attack]

Eric. You have my soul in your statements. I was fortunately able to paddle the Buffalo, Jacks Fork, Current, and my family owned miles of Eleven Point riverside before the Feds bullied their way to ownership. Folks were always allowed to use the normal put ins and take outs. Everyone was EXPECTED to be able to take care of themselves! Those that weren't able to make it down the river safely didn't even try. Back then it was not expected to be Disneyland.