So about the Big Piney access...

[A Savage spanke]

Wow Crane, nice post, you did some re-search on that one. At twin bridges though, hasn't access already been moved to the other side of the river for public folks?

[Crane]

That list is a couple of years old... Consider it merely a talking document:) Crane

[Dave Thomas]

Thanks for sharing the info Crane.

[Jim Krueger]

Larry,

I have just loved the Upper Caddo River for many years and would like to present a brief summary of the rivers' accesses as they presently exist.
Starting from fairly far upstream is;
1. Black Springs, Just 1/4 mile South of Black Springs , off Hwy 8, the county highway crosses the Caddo and offers a good access with some parking at what was/is a Black Springs Community Park. I have used this access many times as late as two years ago. Parking for a few vehicles.
2. Norman, the traditional access is at the Norman Bridge, I usually put in here but park on The Square in Norman as parking below the bridge probably isn't the best. !/4 mile back East of the Norman Bridge is a better spot, just off Hwy 8 the ARG&F built a nice little ramp and parking lot adjacent to the Norman City Park about four years ago. Ramp with parking for 15-20 vehicles.
3. The Swinging Bridge (just West of the community of Caddo Gap on the Manfred Road) The traditional put-in at the site of the old low-water bridge is still a viable option and the one I use most often, parking limited so I park back along the road. Two years ago the ARG&F built a nice new access 100 yards upstream, nice ramp, nice paved parking lot which will accommodate about a dozen vehicles. The ramp however is situated back from the main river which can require walking the boat over to the river at levels below 7ft on the USGS gauge.
4. Hwy 240 (The Narrows) Two good accesses here, both private but easily used by the public for little or no money. One access is just off Hwy8, a large gravel bar maintained by Caddo River Outfitters, Glenwood, they have good access&parking and a collection box with a suggested fee of $1. Across the river, and the Hwy 240 bridge, is Arrowhead Canoe Outfitters, also good access.
5.Glenwood, At the Hwy 70 bridge is some public parking and access under the bridge but the larger part of this area is Caddo River Outfitters and they have been most agreeable to private boaters parking and access.
Just downstream a couple hundred yards, and across the river is another private access of Arrowhead, again, equally agreeable towards private boaters.
ARG&F Glenwood access, just East of the Hwy 70 bridge and is one of the finest of the accesses I've seen the G&F commission construct! Parking for 20 vehicles and very handy to the river.
6. Amity, Hwy 182 ARG&F Access. The G&F built this access at the site of the old low-water bridge about 15 years ago, it's a handy access with ramp and parking for about 15 vehicles or so.
7. Amity, Hwy 84* This is an unimproved access I use often and the last one on the upper river I'd really like to see improved. Currently one may access the river from under the West side of the modern Hwy. 84 bridge but the parking /security is sketchy and the access is steep and not very handy sometimes... There is an alternate access across the river at the site of the old low-water bridge which isn't much better. I'd really appreciate if the G&F would take a look at the possibilities at 84. The float down from 182 is a nice 5 mile trip around Sugar Loaf Knob, and the float on downstream into Lake Degray is also very nice with bluffs not unlike some on the Buffalo.
8. Upper Lake Degray. The traditional take-out is Amity Landing, a nice COE facility with ramp and lots of parking. COE day use charges apply. There is now also another access just upstream of Amity landing and on the West side of the river, this is the site of the old Runyan Bridge. My contacts with Clark County indicate the county has just finished remodeling an older ramp at Runyan Bridge so I'm certainly looking forward to having a look.
There are several more accesses on the Caddo but these are the major ones that are available to the public and which divide the upper river into manageable sections for day/fishing use throughout the majority of it's length.. I hope this information will be helpful :)

Best Regards
Jim

[Crane]

Thanks for the detailed information, Jim! I've added it to my list for future reference. Now, if other folks with detailed knowledge would chime in, we could build some sense of our over-all access needs! Crane

[Clif]

Seems to me raising money to obtain land even if we turn it over to Agf or something else, would be a very important and worthwhile project. Almost necessity to preserve paddling as we know it on some streams. If this gas stuff expands.. all kinds of things could change?

Are there other legal hurdles or liabilities involved?

[Shep]

I don't want to stick my foot to deeply into my mouth, but having lived in Austin, Texas for a while in the early part of the decade, I don't believe giving land to the state is a guarantee of future ownership by the state. The Perry Administration, IRIC, took a lot of state land that people thought would be preserved, and sold it off for some quick cash. Granted, Texas has a long history of promoting private ownership of land (cattle barons of the 1800's), but do you think the politics in AR and TX are that different? I can easily imagine the state legislature selling off tracts of land to corporations as our state financial situation gets muddier. Unfortunately, American Whitewater isn't set up for land purchases like The Access Fund (of course, rivers are very different than climbing sites...)

Signed,
Nervous in NWA
(Shep)

[Jim Krueger]

Shep,

I mentioned the idea of helping to buy land for an access then donating it to the state because while we might be able to do that, I don't think we'd ever be able to/want to maintain the access on our own. IMHO

I too get pretty irked to read about especially the land swaps between the major timber companies and the National Forest Service, I have seen these personally in our Ouachita National Forest. So far, I've never heard of any of the state owned/developed accesses going the same way.

Best Regards
Jim

[Crane]

There are no perfect solutions... but, I believe having AG&FC ownership has the least risk and highest possible return for possible secure access for the near future.

[Dave Thomas]

There are no perfect solutions... but, I believe having AG&FC ownership has the least risk and highest possible return for possible secure access for the near future.

As indicated in my second response to this thread, I too believe that this is going to be the most effective way to acquire improved access to Big Piney Creek. Anyone personally know Ms. Helton well enough to ask on behalf of the ACC?

[SteveGabbard]

Some options, feel free to critique:

1. Purchase land from the road to the river. Donate to whoever.
2. Purchase 1 or 2 acres of flood plain and an easement from there to the road. Donate to whoever.
3. Try to work with a landowner to get land donated to whoever and maybe they will get a tax break.