Help!

[newbie]

Hi
I am new to the whole white water kayaking and am looking for a boat. I found a dagger super ego for a goo price. Can anyone give me in put as to if it might be the right boat for me? I am 5ft 2in and weigh 140lb. I am looking for a creek or river runner boat if possible.
Thanks for looking,
Newbie

[justin.payne]

There is really no correct answer to that question.....

Try it out....if you like it....and its comfortable.....get it.

Dont settle for anything other than what you want, because before you know it, you will have a bigger boat inventory than CKS...trust me

[Michele Jackson]

Based on the specs on that boat, you'll be at the very low end of the weight range. It may be a tad big for you.

[jackatspa]

Hop on playak.com they have specs on nearly every boat ever made. Alot of good info.

[TonyC]

Being a guy that bought my first boat in June,

Don't buy anything till you have paddled several boats, on flatwater at minimum, but a river is better. You might come to boatball. Most ballers will let you try out their boats, cause we've been through the indecision of buying boats too. Try river moves and test the secondary stability even if only in flatwater. Also try out everybody's different paddles.

I've got an old model Jackson Hero, and if you can find a good deal on this boat or the new model, a lot of us like the Hero. If you go to an outfitter, they might let you demo a boat in nearby flatwater. Fit is very important. You can also find a lot of people on this board selling boats, and many people will give you opinions if you ask for them.

Don't rush it. Make sure you get something that stands out from the other boats you test float.

Good luck noob!

-Tony

[Regud]

Sorry... I disagree

In the two + years I have been paddling, I now have a hard time counting how many different boats I have owned. I am just now finding boats that I am comfortable paddling.

If it gets you out on the water, learning about yourself, what you like, and what you like to paddle, there is no wrong first boat. Buy used boats and gear, and you will likely not lose any money on your investment if/when you sell it.

[Crane]

I have a friend in Louisiana who has a Pyranah Micro 230 (barely used) that might be willing to sell reasonably. It is a good creek-boat at your specific weight range, easiest boat in the world to roll, good for most any moving water. PM me if you are interested in hetting hooked up with it. Crane

[Jaytee]

I agree with Regud.

First, it is hard to paddle a lot of boats you are looking at, and even if you could, it is unlikely that you could really discern which was better for you. Assuming you are looking in the used market (which you should), most sellers pretty much want you to come buy it at their house. They aren't going to meet you at a lake. So, on a practical level it is hard to paddle a used boat before you buy unless you are buying it from an ACC person.

Second, I couldn't feel the difference in boats at first... at least not in a meaningful way. The first boat I bought was wrong for me but because I bought it used, I turned around and sold it two months later for the same price I paid. I've done the same thing with a canoe.

If through Playak or Eddy Flower you get a general sense that you are in the right weight range and the boat is designed for your preferred purpose, then give it a go. You can always re-sell here or on Craig's List.

[bmartin]

Boats are like beer, new drinkers really can't really tell the difference among the ales. Besides the comfort of the rigging, it takes a while to appreciate the differences in kayak design and wouldn't be too picky up front. Most people will grow to like whatever they are used.

[Cowper]

Hi
I am 5ft 2in and weigh 140lb. I am looking for a creek or river runner boat if possible.

From the web: "Our loosest hull yet — turns your favorite 360 wave into your favorite clean 720 wave • hits the freestyle nail on the head for the larger-than-average paddler • surprising hull speed will get you into the meat, the loose hull and dynamic edges will keep you there"

While I agree with the above comments about buying used and not worrying about it too much, this boat is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what you were looking for (creek/river runner vs "freestyle") and is for larger paddlers than you.

[Crane]

Cowper... I assume you were referring to the Dagger Super-Ego as not being the best learning-boat around for running rivers and creeks. A comment posted about a Micro 230 was:

Tracks well, yet still reasonably easy to turn. Very easy to roll. Comfortable for smaller folks. At 150 lbs, 5'7", I felt like I was maxing out that boat, but someone at 100-140 would be perfect. They also were quite light to carry due to no center pillar. Durable boats, too... I sent mine off Gorilla solo and filled with water twice in a week back in 2001 or so and I collected it at Nutcracker with narry an issue. Great first creeker and great learning boat in general.

Just making sure I didn't mis-understand:) Crane

[Cowper]

Cowper... I assume you were referring to the Dagger Super-Ego as not being the best learning-boat around for running rivers and creeks.

Well, sort of...
I've pointed a couple of folks towards creek boats as first boats, and had it back-fire when they quickly decided they wanted something that was better for play. Other beginners have LOVED the creek boats. So I was trying to avoid the question "what's the best learning boat?", because newbie didn't ask that question and the answer is different for different people. I was simply taking it as a "given" that newbie had ALREADY DECIDED on a creek boat/river runner, and my real point was just to say that the Dagger Super Ego is NOT a creek boat or a river runner, and therefore not at all what newbie was looking for.

But yes, I agree the Micro 230 would be a great first creek boat; newbie is also big enough to paddle a Micro 240, IMHO.

[Eric Esche]

Don't feel bad Cowper. I tend to steer beginners towards creek boats and river runners first as I think they learn better boat handling skills with a displacement hull, just like I also tend to favor shallow arch canoe hulls over flat bottom ones. Folks can learn on anything if there is a desire and commitment, but I think fewer drop out if they get a good foundation first. There is no one right way for everyone. Like they say - Different strokes for different folks.

They still wind up using what ever they buy, and which ever way they go. Some just go through more intermediate boats before they find happiness. Consider myself lucky to still have my first canoe, and the same kayak now for over 5 years, except that it is Susan's now.

I try to loan out spare boats of mine to let new folks try out gear so they will be able to judge for themselves, independent of what a store may be pushing. We have kept some of our older boats rather than sell them just so we can do this and to have spares when friends and company visit. Just slipped a cog in the evolution of boats and never got into play boats as they are now, as I never found one I could fit into comfortably. Never got a short canoe either (yet), although I still lust over Mad River Couriers, and their off spring.

Haven't heard you steer anyone wrong yet.

Eric Esche

[GN YAKN]

I've read a few of the replies and found it really interesting that some have found that putting beginners in a creek boat was effective. I've had the opposite experience often enough to turn me against the idea.

The main problem I've found with beginners and creek boats is that the creek boats have so much rocker that they are harder to paddle in a straight line. Creek boats turn really fast making the need for stronger correcting strokes applied quicker than would be necessary in play or river runners.

Other than trying to teach folks to paddle in a straight I've found the creekers are usually easier for teaching rolling due to the more rounded bodies.

Dave

[Crane]

Good point, Dave... I'll admit my bias... After paddling a canoe for many years with some success and pleasure, when I decided to go to the dark side my first yak was a Micro 240... and my third and fourth. I put my bride in one as a newbie and she has paddled for years now and swam twice... But, Micro's are getting rare any more... So, if this newbie wants one, I know where a Micro 230 (smaller and a little different design, but...) can probably be had for a reasonable price. If he can find a Micro 240, I think he'd be pleased, too. By the end of the third or fourth trip, he'd be paddling it straight... ish. Crane