Hybrid Kayaks

[Mike_P]

I've seen a lot on the board lately about the LL XP10 & have a friend interested in one of the hybrid boats. I'm trying to research it for him. Trying to figure out the pros/cons of the LL XP10 vs the Pyranha Fusion vs the Jackson All-Water vs the Dagger Approach. Here are links I've found. Seem like the XP10 gets vote for most stable & the Fusion gets the vote for fastest. Also apparently the Fusion's hatch is more waterproof. The OOO guys seem to like the XP10. Seems like these boats would be ideal for folks wanting a kayak for the Buffalo that they can also take on the Mulberry & other class II stuff. Thoughts? Mike P.

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[Regud]

The approach is cheaper if that is a factor. The allwater and the approach have the same style dry hatch, which is a little difficult to get larger items in. I like the XP, not to mention the boys at OOO can pimp it for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-kpMj6TPk

[okieboater]

Thanks guys for posting all this information. I knew about the Remix, but not the Fusion or Approach.

I have always self supported out of a creeker style kayak, Prijon Chopper being a favorite.

Good reviews on these 3 boats, it would be nice to hear one from Jackson as well.

I have aways been a WW kayaker and used either a canoe or raft for river camping.

These boats could very well be a good deal for us WW types wanting to do more river kayak camping with more than a thin backpacker ensolite sleeping pad stuffed somewhere in a WW kayak.

[Roger]

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Could be this was written by the JK crew, but at least it gives you something!!!

[okieboater]

Thanks Roger

Teachers know all the good stuff!!!!!!

or

where to find it <big smiles>

[Cowper]

Can you roll / do you plan to roll? (no need to answer publicly)

If yes, then I would probably not choose the Dagger Approach. The width specs say it is the same as the Remix XP10, but, I'm skeptical and thinking that the roomier cockpit and overall boat design will make it a harder boat to roll. I think it was designed with the idea of being stable enough that rolls shouldn't be needed very often.

The Jackson All Water is over 2" narrower, thus probably faster, easier to roll, but with less gear capacity. The rear hatch looks much smaller than the XP10. Ouachita Outdoor Outfitters has both so you can do a side-by-side comparison that will be far better than my internet observations.

Your observations on speed are probably right on. I'm not a big fan of skegs, but Jeremy speaks highly of how the skeg on the Remix helps the boat handle better for the slow sections of river. Just remember to retract it before running any rapids or shoals. You especially don't want to drift sideways or backwards into anything while the skeg is down.

Yeah, any of these boats can run some pretty serious whitewater if your skills are up to the task. All are in the 10 to 11 foot range. Folks tend to forget that creeks like the Hailstone and Richland were first pioneered in 15 to 16 foot open canoes, and in kayaks that were 13'-1-1/2" long because Olympic racing rules said that by defintion all kayaks must be at least 4 meters long.

For reference, since we're talking about what boat can do what creek, there was a Jackson All-Star on Richland last year. The owner had a little bit of trouble and portaged some, but I think it was because he was a very competent, self-confident outdoor-type person who got a boat and then jumped on Richland a little too fast, before he was really ready. If he had been in an 8 foot creek boat, he would have had a somewhat better day, but I don't think it would have been completely incident-free even in a different boat.

[Regud]

I will have to agree with Cowper on the roll-ability of the Approach.

I could roll my Approach w/o gear... sort of :roll:

I tried it once w/ overnight gear... bad idea

However, as wide as the boat was, it was very stable and did not seem tipsy at all. The Approach 10 is probably a little more on the rec side of the hybrid boats.

[Mike_P]

Thanks for the advice. My friend has taken the advice & is in St. Louis boat shopping as we speak!

Another observation (that I'd have to see the boats for myself to confirm) is that the skegs that are retracted with the "pull string" may be able to more easily self-retract if you accidently hit some shallow water (going straight forward) with it deployed as opposed to the lever mechanism on the XP10. Again that is just based on what I read on one of the reviews but I can't confirm.

Mike.

[Wojack75]

What I've seen of the Skeg on the XP10 is that it's spring loaded and if you run over an obstacle going forward it'll just push up in it's slot then come back down once you've passed it.

I've also read that the All Water actually has a few more cubic inches of storage than the XP10 but you should confirm that before swearing to it.

The XP10 has been down the Grand Canyon. I want one myself. With the radio. hells yeah.

[Mike_P]

FYI the latest edition of Canoe & Kayak has a decent review article comparing these boats. It's hard to summarize as they do individual reviews without really summarizing which they like better.

[clampkin]

I have both a Jackson all water and a Prijon Combi and both are good boats but the Combi is by far the more quality boat with ample dry storage and great handling both in rivers and lakes. I have the removable skeg for lakes on the combi but don't generally bother as it tracks fairly well without. It is a larger boat than the Jackson and the seat isn't as nice but the handling and quality is superior. YOu really wouldn't go wrong with either as a crossover but I've got two of the Combis if that tells you anything.

[james920]

its very awesome :))

Note from moderator: this thread has been dead since 2010. I think you plan to spam us, because that is what always happens when threads this old get dragged back to the top on the first post by a brand new poster, with a one-line comment like yours, with an IP address from Pakistan.