Alcohol crackdown on Buffalo?

[bj1299]

LifeJacket.... Meant to say pruitt. But as for your concern about me sinking cans, do you really think i'd be on this board if I was like that? I was just stating a fact. You know they will do it too. I don't even drink on the river. Thanks though! lol

[fishhomer75]

coldspring may be my new hero

[Lifejacket]

LifeJacket.... Meant to say pruitt. But as for your concern about me sinking cans, do you really think i'd be on this board if I was like that? I was just stating a fact. You know they will do it too. I don't even drink on the river. Thanks though! lol

I figured so. It was really the comment from the other poster that set me off.

[plaidpants]

Has anyone been able to find anything about regulations in the National Park Service pertaining to alcohol? The only thing I have found is it is up to the individual park. I also found that if you are caught DUI/DWI in a National Park then you should (Should is a key word here) be processed through the Federal Courts not local unless the NPS has given the state the jurisdiction. The only state I found that is done is California.

Since moving to Fort Smith a couple of weeks ago I seen a news clip stating the 5mph over the speed limit rule is not longer tolerated here because the Fort Smith funds are going fast. Tickets are being given for 2mph over. By doing this it alos keeps law enforcement employed by having the funds to make payroll. I would think this is the same for county, state, and federal law enforcement. So where is one of the places possible to catch those violating drunk/drinking while driving. I enjoy overnight trips on the river and will drink only after starting down river and will not drink the next day while paddling out as I have done in the past. I should be able to pass a BA at the take out. If they want to count my cans in the mesh bag they may get more than expected when they grab my full wag bag.

[Gink]

The facts are: in those parks -- both state and national -- where alcohol is not permitted there is less vandalism, fewer complaints of noise and noxious behavior, reduced costs due to damages, fewer evictions and a significant reduction in alcohol related charges. And from an environmental perspective -- far less littering. Ask anyone who works in our park systems as to their #1 public problem and concern and it always stems from alcohol and drugs.

I'm not saying that I'm opposed to drinking -- I enjoy a good beer myself -- I'm saying that just as I don't want you smoking at the table next to me at my favorite diner, I don't want to be paddling and camping with a bunch of folks who have to always be drinking to have a good time. I've heard a lot of drunken cursing echoing off the bluffs of the Buffalo, I've seen folks so drunk on the Spring they place both themselves and others at risk, I've dealt with the loud obnoxious drunks in the middle of the night on the Mulberry, and I've seen park officials put at jeopardy breaking up drunken brawls on the Piney.

We have so very few national parks -- as compared to private homes and property -- so why should these public lands be used for "recreational drinking and drug use"? These are places for families, for folks to commune with nature and seek peace and solitude and it is sad to see that so many people look at these national treasures as places to drink and get high?

I myself have both admiration and trust in those who oversee our national parks and enforce our laws. Moreover, I appreciate all they do to assure our safety and well-being. And I just don't think we should encourage the use of alcohol -- or any drugs -- within our national parks or on the river. Just my opinion. And thanks for the opportunity to express it.

[Wildwood]

Well said, Gink.

[Lifejacket]

Now that you have calmed down and stated your point of view in a positive way instead of negative, I will respond again. Your arguments are no different than any of the others I continually hear, which equates to punish all for the actions of some. You might also be interested to know that most vandalism is done by people ages 16-24, should we ban them as well? While i like to go to the river and have a good time, I try never to infringe on anyone else's time. I also find it a good idea to have a sober driver at the take-out if leaving.

[painterbob]

call the midwest region ozark communication center @ 1-888-692-1162 you have to say ... NON- EMERGENCY

[Gink]

I know we are all really close to being on the same page and wanting the same thing: to enjoy paddling from any and all interference/disruption whether it be from drunks or law enforcement. Moreover I am certain none of us wish to interfere with the rights and civil liberties of others -- one of founding principles of our country -- and that does include the right to drink (and maybe someday even the right to even smoke marijuana).

But the however here -- and there's always a "however" -- is that one shouldn't look at prohibitions against drinking within our national parks as "punishment". When the laws of our nation run in opposition to our desires and pursuits, yeah, it certainly feels like we're being punished but those who look to restrict use of alcohol/drugs in our national parks aren't doing it to "punish" people per se; but rather to assure the safety and well-being of the public. For as someone has already stated -- sadly, some people fail to heed our warning of "all good things in moderation" and it only takes a few &%$#*&s to mess it up for all of us.

Carry on... gotta go have a drink!

[coldspring]

Why do people seek these national parks out as places to build a fire and have a cookout...can't they be happy eating in a restaurant or at home? I don't like their campfire smoke and it infringes on my rights to enjoy the solitude and fresh air. Keep the cookouts at home! I just want to commune with nature and talk to the birds and the bees. Speaking of birds and bees, why do these heathens want to come to a park with their mate and hold hands, kiss, display affection, or, even god curse them, sneak off in the woods and engage in sexual intercourse?!? Keep that kind of activity at home and don't disturb my peace and tranquility! It's all about communing with nature, looking at flowers, and birds. And please don't come to the park with your social group, or your family, or other friends. There are other places to meet up and do so, stay in your town, or city, wherever, but I don't see why you want to use our precious national park to engage in a get together with human beings.

Heck, I think we ought to close the park down to visitors, just let nature take it's course, except let the park rangers use it as their personal space. Been around these places a while and know how they think and operate...there are different rules for them and us.

[okieboater]

Coldspring said:
"Heck, I think we ought to close the park down to visitors, just let nature take it's course, except let the park rangers use it as their personal space. Been around these places a while and know how they think and operate...there are different rules for them and us."

some years ago, I made a run down the green from mineral bottoms thru cataract canyon and on to the lake. laid back trip. I was in my kayak and two other guys in a raft. We had a little motor on the raft. Rowed the rapids and let the putt putt slowly go on the flats. I was in a Response and could easily out run the putt putt, but it was sure nice to hang on once in a while.

But I digress.

We camped at the big drops and made the run in the morning of the next day. By the way this camp on river left is one of the most awesome places I know of to camp.

Were down in the bottom of the big drops rigging up our motor mount,when the River Ranger roared down in his "rescue" monster size J rig. White raft tubes, crome plate flooring, two monster Mercury Jet motors on the rear. The ranger driving was in uniform. There were 5 or 6 others lounging around on the big deck, ladies in swim suits enjoying the sun. We were alone on the river and the Ranger wanted to check our permit even tho it took a while to get to the permit. So we chatted with the ranger. He said his boat would go up the big drops even when the big waves were there. Very nice man. Said he made the trip up and down once a week but more in the big run off season or he would park at the big drops and rescue when the river was going off big time. I asked what he was doing hauling civilians down the river. Ranger laughed and said these passengers were office ranger types and ever so often he would take some down the river for a few days camping so they "understood" more about the river. We produced the permit. Ranger and his big time motor rig roared off with a rooster tail coming off the rear. at dusk we saw them camped on the river left with a nice fire going. We waved and went on down river or lake at that point and ended up sleeping on a cliff face due to it getting dark.

Bottom line: The phase "there are different rules for them and us" made me remember this event. Talk about a dream job, driving that rig was sweet, or even working in the office was pretty good if you got trips like that at taxpayer expense.

Life is good!!!!!!

[Water bug]

I can certainly understand now what you folks meant about unruly campers.
BUFFALO NATIONAL RIVER
Taser Used During Arrest Of Combative Subject
On June 27th, ranger David Sullivan received a report of a seriously drunken camper in the Buffalo Point campground...
http://home.nps.gov/applications/digest ... =incidents

Wow!

[summerbee]

Early this Spring, the Ozark Society and ACC participated in a clean up on Lee Creek in and around Devil's Den. By the time we were finished, even this devout beer drinker was wondering if the the water and land would be better off if alcohol was barred from State/Federal lands.
The amount of disgusting trash and empty beer cans and booze bottles picked up was nothing short of unbelievable.
I would gladly give up drinking cold ones on the Buffalo or in any other park land if it would be better for the natural resource. When I see natural beauty spoiled by trash of any sort...well, it just takes away more than enjoying even the best brew after a good paddle could give...and believe me, I do enjoy a delcious cold one.
Cheers.

[Crane]

Rather than prohibit all alcohol, the better course would seem to be simply enforcing the "no disruptive behavior' rules... punish the jerks who cause problems and let the rest of the universe enjoy themselves... quietly. Crane

[Tim Eubanks]

Since I started this thread, let me chime in now.

Does anyone really think that by banning alcohol on any given stream/area , trash will disappear? They still make soft drinks in cans, right? Rednecks still carry all their stuff in Wal Mart bags, right? And EVERYONE obeys EVERY law and carries out their moral obligation to leave it better than you found it? Why not ban cigarettes while we're at it so none of us have to look at discarded butts, which smokers somehow seem not to consider litter (based on their ever-present qualitiy in our environment)?

Heard the park superintendent at an OS meeting recently. His comment was that his staff always cooperated with state and local law enforcement during road/river blocks or screenings. Drivers who were deemend to be unfit to continue were offered the option of simply having someone else drive, if available and "capable". That's what he said.

If you're gonna drink, pay attention to your "status" and have a backup plan or face the consequences.

We've talked to a couple of campground hosts and have been told that if someone gets out of hand, let them know. They will then radio the ranger and get the party started. If you're annoyed by bad actors, your choice is to let them ruin your day or get someone to do something about it.

The world is full idiots. Some of them drink, some don't. They will both make you crazy if you let them.