Full Dry Suit vs Dry Pants and Dry Top

[sugarmtngal]

About to purchase a full dry suit, however a vendor
led me to believe 'dry pants' with my dry top
should be efficient-
Well, a Kayaker friend explained to me that
the dry pants will fill up and she recommended
a purchase of a full dry suit.
I have always been dry in a full dry suit, and
have never tried the pants with top.....
Actually my hydroskin pants with underlayers
and a dry top have so far been pretty good! Just getting
tired of my legs being wet when having to
scout sections.

[panicman]

If you don't go with full dry suit I recomend the dry bibs which is what I use. Almost as dry as a drysuit.

[okieboater]

Palm makes a semi breathable paddle pant with sewn in fabric feet. I picked up a pair on a good sale price from REI. Finally, warm feet in wool sox with out dealing with a dry suit entry and exit. I can still enter / exit my Kokatat dry suit, but with all the shoulder / neck problems I have picked up over the years, it is not a fun thing to do or probably even watch.

Have used my kokatat dry top and palm footed pants on several occasions and am happy with them.

Have not taken a swim in them and do not know how that works out. Might test this out myself when water warms up a bit. My guess is might see a bit of leakage around the waist but not much.

I have a full dry suit and it is my cold weather garb first choice

however, the dry top and footed paddle pants look like a good alternative to me.

It is a personal decision for you to make after you do some tests.

[A Savage spanke]

Dry suit all the way

[Eric Esche]

Mary McFann went with a breathable dry top, dry pants, and gore-tex socks, (which gives here a water tight seal at the ankles where the latex ankle seal, seals to the gore-tex sock just fine, after not liking as much a one piece Helly Hansen breathable dry suit with latex socks, but no drop bottom, and a sticky front zipper. (Helly Hansen's breathable material seems to be as stout a material as in a Kokatat Gore-texsuit, and Mary said it is very breathable. I doubt though that she challeges any suit's breathability much)

She didn't like the having to take the whole thing off and first needing help with the zipper, just to visit the woods. (I have since waxed the zippers on all of our suits, and ordered more zipper wax, so I always have it.).

And then after she got the two piece IR top and NRS bottoms from Packrat, which she very much likes (Thank you again Kevin), I found her a Kokatat drop seat one piece with socks and a neoprene neck seal, that she also likes for it's fit and convienience, and the non choking, non hair pulling neck seal. It's not goretex, but it too is breathable and lighter. She realizes that the neoprene neck will not be as water tight as a Latex seal neck, but rationalizes it as she has never turned over YET tandeming with me or in the sea kayaks, and it is so much more comfortable, she says. The non-hair pulling entry and exit I think impressed her as much as the Non-choking factor and she likes the drop seat bottom, so she has two paddleing options now, and a third she can loan out or use if one has to be sent off for seal replacements.

More than one way to skin (or dress) a cat as the saying goes.

I use the separate gore-tex socks on my Kokatat (Tigerwear) Gore-tex one piece suit (with relief zipper) one piece suit, and have stood waist deep for an hour working with someone learning how to roll with no leaks. Separate socks were ex-british military gore-tex boot socks size 13, roomy enough for me to wear 3-4 layers of polypropylene and polyester fleece socks underneath with out compressing them for maximum insulation and warmth. Got a pair of NRS ATB boots size 13.5 wide to go with them as my winter boots. Have used this combination 30 times now with no leaks and warm feet.

Yes, built in breathable socks would have been nice, but I have no complaints about dry warm feet, and it is about $150-200 cheaper. Found my goretex kokatat made suit on eBay for $79 including shipping, and had Tim Muse put on a replacement OS commercial thickness neck seal after one season. Tim did a great job on the seal replacements on all three suits I had him work on. (I have a spare women's med-large Nylon Kokatat suit with ankle seals, being the third one he worked on - makes a good loaner when you have someone who might not go due to the weather sea kayaking or canoeing.)

Eric

[Cowper]

About to purchase a full dry suit [1], however a vendor
led me to believe 'dry pants' with my dry top
should be efficient-[2]
Well, a Kayaker friend explained to me that
the dry pants will fill up [3]and she recommended
a purchase of a full dry suit.
I have always been dry in a full dry suit,[4] and
have never tried the pants with top.....
Actually my hydroskin pants with underlayers
and a dry top have so far been pretty good![5] Just getting
tired of my legs being wet [6]when having to
scout sections.

Sorry for quoting your entire post, but I drew something from almost every sentence, so I added #s for cross reference.

Full suit IMHO, heres why:

1) So you can afford the full suit if that is your final decision
2) "Cost efficient" - I would agree, but if you can afford the full suit...
3) Possible, but not likely with dry pants that "mate" with your top - I don't think it is a safety issue
4) So, you are OK with the basic "feel" of a full suit; you might not like dry pants + dry top nearly as much. It takes longer to get in because you have to roll the two together to seal near the waist, and the roll creates bulk near your waist, under the spray skirt tunnel, that can reduce your flexibility
5) So you already have a combo that works in warmer weather when you don't want a full suit
6) You just need a full suit, with sewn-in gore-tex (or equivalent material) booties. Then wade without fear or hesitation!

OK, one thing you didn't hint at, so I'll add it - get a relief zipper of some kind. Some women get traditional drop seats, some prefer male relief zippers and carry an "accessory" to make it usable; no personal experience on which is better...

[JB2012]

I recently got a full dry suit from Pak rat. I've only worn it once (warmish days I wear the old wet suit). (If you recall, I'm an open boater) I didn't swim, but being on cold water in a dry suit, made me more adventureous.

My main reason for getting the dry suit is that when I swim--my feet freeze. I got tired of having painful toes. Yes I got the one with the booties attached. When I got off the river it was nice to peel off the suit and be dry---even from sweat! The bad part was the tightness of the neck gasket.

Jim

[sugarmtngal]

Thanks for the expert advice backed by experience
and knowledge! This Message Board Is the best!
Yes, Jim I do recall meeting you! Hope to see
you again on the rivers.
Cowper has a unique mind similar to a
microscope, very specific and detailed; must
be a paddler thing
I'm partial to the full suit, however I'm aging like
everyone else (so what) with some
arthritis flaring may get the pants!
Keep paddling!

[okieboater]

an addition to my post.

hands down, a full dry suit with attached feet is the warmest outer layer for winter boating, at least in my opinion. Throw in thick fleece and smart wool sox and you are good to go. Remember your face and neck are still exposed to the freezing water and you can experience problems if you swim.

Years ago I had one of the dry top, dry bottoms roll em together at the waist setups. never liked it. It went away after a few uses.

The dry top and dry pants with sewn on fabric feet setup that I have in addition to the kokatat goretex full dry suit does not roll together at the waist. the pants have a nice wide neoprene top section. I pull the inside layer of my dry top down, pull the dry pants neoprene top and my spray skirt up over and pull down the outer layer of the dry top bottom.

I have not taken a swim in my current setup but have taken several swims in the old style pants with the latex seal at the ankles and was very surprised at how dry I was. Some leakage around the waist but not much.

I am not saying the dry top / dry pants with sewn in feet is the best setup for everyone. But for me it is a pretty dog gone good setup for most of the time I am out and about on a creek.

[DMG]

I can't comment on the relative functionality of the drypant setup because I haven't tried it, so I'll differ to the experts on that. I would advise you not to base your whole decision on the difficulty of getting into a drysuit until you've actually tried to do it. I'm 5'7" and bought a large drysuit because it fit my waist and my chest even though it's recommended height range is 5'10" to 6'2". The extra length causes no problem and makes the suit really easy to get into and out of. I barely have to scrunch my neck at all. It might be a different story if I was 6'2". Look at the size chart and if you're toward the lower end of the recommended height range, or even below it, I don't think getting in and out of the suit will be a problem, especially for someone as spectacularly fit as you. Just a thought.

~Dave

[kayakdoc]

I have tried the dry pants/dry top setup for the past several years and despite tedious, meticulous effort to create a functional waist seal, I find frequent leakage at the waist line. I think the seated, twisting, bending, flexing postition of a yakker lends to the "unravveling" of the "perfect seal". I am currently looking at getting a Kokatat GMER drysuit. The relief zipper technology is what I wanted to be "perfected" several years ago when I went with the dry pants/top setup. I think the advice of getting ample height/length is also good to minimize the Houdini-like efforts of getting in/out of a suit like Dave mentioned.
Mike Hillis

[JB2012]

I have no problem getting my full suit on/off--I'm a about 6' and 165 lbs. Well, reaching for the zipper on the shoulder is the most difficult action.

JB

[Cowper]

Well, reaching for the zipper on the shoulder is the most difficult action.

I think that's mostly a "guy" problem.

It could that our broad, muscular shoulders, hardened from years of carrying the weight of the world, limit our flexibility slightly.

(or it could just be that we're too proud to ask for help)

[RomanLA]

It could that our broad, muscular shoulders, hardened from years of carrying the weight of the world, limit our flexibility slightly.

I wore an extra fleece layer soloing one day this winter and couldn't get my dry suit off. I had to stop and ask someone on the side of the road to help me get it down past my shoulders!