Newbie with I am sure the same old question

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miquel_westano
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Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:12 pm

I am just looking at buying a canoe. I own a pawnshop and have a chance to trade for an Old Town Discovery 133. I know this is a beginner canoe, not the best at anything and not one for whitewater. I am sure I will eventually move up from it. But my questions are:

1. Is this used in good shape worth $700
2. Will it be a serviceable canoe for fishing lakes
3. Is the stability good enough a guy who has never been in a canoe can stay upright
4. When I add my 7yo grandson to the mix, will it still stay upright
5. Is it ok for packing some gear for an overnighter camp trip
6. Are there better options in that price range

Thanks. I live in Springfield Mo but fish Arkansas quite often. I appreciate the help.

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by prophet » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:46 pm

never paddled one but looked at the specs. it would be ok for solo paddling, will haul some gear too. judging by the width, its prob fairly stable. adding a kid will get somewhat cramped in a 13' boat but would work. you could prob find a 16' that would haul a 2nd person/more gear and track better for $700 if either of those will be regularly needed

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Gordon Kumpuris
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Gordon Kumpuris » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:58 pm

1. I would think you could either get the price down or find something better for about the same price. Unless it is almost brand new, that seems a little high.
2. I think it would be ok for fishing lakes. A fishing kayak might be better but of course that's just the nature of boats. There is one for every aspect of the sport you can't buy a dozen different boats....at first. :)
3. Probably after a bit of practice. Just get it out on a lake a bit first.
4. Depends. Any weight you add, especially weight above the gunnels will make it less stable. A kid who shifts his weight around even more so. That said, plenty of people take kids out in solo canoes including me in years past. Make sure you BOTH are wearing a PFD, make sure there is no entrapment (getting stuck in your boat upside down) hazards in case of a capsize and limit trips with kids to days when weather and water temps are favorable.
5. Yes. just don't take the kitchen sink.
6. In my opinion, Yes. Just post on the Arkansas Canoe Club FB page or the Whitewater gear for sale FB page that you are looking for a ___________. I bet you can find something better out there.
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Deuce
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Deuce » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:01 pm

This would be a MUCH better choice. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29708
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:36 pm

Gordon Kumpuris wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:58 pm
make sure there is no entrapment (getting stuck in your boat upside down) hazards in case of a capsize
First thanks to everyone who replied.

Now I have to admit the line above got my attention and stirred an ugly image of me or my grandson under a canoe with no way out. Stupid question I guess but what causes this? Tangles in oar/paddle leashes? Loose gear on deck? Under a thwart? This is something I never even envisioned.

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:47 pm

Deuce wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:01 pm
This would be a MUCH better choice. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29708
That looks like a great canoe, but I am a long ways from Shreveport and am trading a customer a rifle for this Old Town. I have not seen anything like this on my local Craigslist. That does make me wonder if the Old Town is worth $700 though.

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Deuce » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:28 am

Understood. IMO the Discovery isn't worth $700 and probably wouldn't meet your needs. If you do decide you like something that's too far from Springfield you'll quickly discover there are options for getting boats hither and yon. Just sayin'...........
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Gordon Kumpuris
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Gordon Kumpuris » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:59 am

Agree with Luke. The boat in Shreveport is a good deal.
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:15 am

Gordon Kumpuris wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:59 am
Agree with Luke. The boat in Shreveport is a good deal.
I have no doubt it is. I would never get on a forum and then discount the opinions of folks I asked. But the rub is, I am open 6 days a week, try to get all my yard work done on Sunday and a little R&R then head back to the store. Believe me, you never own a business, the business owns you.

So that leaves me dealing with something local or expecting someone to deliver. Also the Discovery is a trade which is always better for me since I literally have hundreds of firearms. But I still need the canoe to be a deal at $700 because that's what I will have to allow in real money for it. The owner was on CL and we have not agreed to a solid deal, and he may sell it before he gets here. That's another reason I got on here, to see what I should look to spend.

I am a bicycle rider, and motorcycle rider, so I figure I can handle some tippy feeling until the secondary stability kicks in, but I don't want to spend all day climbing back in a skinny racing hull.

I wish I was closer to Shreveport, and in a perfect world that the owner of that canoe needed a nice deer rifle. But often in trading you have to accept less than ideal due to the logistics. Maybe something like it will pop up in Northern AR. I would consider driving down there although that would rule out the trade.

Again thank you and everyone offering help.

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Jim Krueger » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:37 pm

Miquel,
After researching the Old Town Discovery 133 , I see that it lists for nearly $1000, so that price looks a little better, especially if it is in top shape and you can barter other stuff for it in trade to lessen the amount you have to pay for it.
I think it would be a pretty stable and durable canoe, but do realize that if you and your son run any moving streams, or paddle waves on a lake, the canoe will be the most stable if you slip forward off of the seats and onto your knees in the bottom of the boat, as needed. The entrapment hazard is always something every boater needs to think of whether paddling in kayaks or canoes but can be greatly minimized with training and forethought. Certainly no paddle leashes!and no extra ropes or cords laying around in the canoe, or strap-on canoe seats with a mile of extra strap hanging down. Canoe paddlers also need to make sure there is adequate room for their feet&heels underneath the seats when kneeling so they can easily move forward and away when they turn over. When I am floating the Caddo River for instance, most of the folks I see turning over , usually in rental canoes, do so because they are sitting up on the seats in a rapid instead of being down on their knees and actively paddling.
Many of us, of a certain age :D, started floating in canoes, and either stayed with them or switched to kayaks. I am a kayaker myself, but still have an old Blue Hole Canoe. I will look forward to hearing more later if you get the canoe or not, I'll bet you will enjoy it. You should be able to do some overnight floats, but at 13'3", you may have to be more sparing on the cargo despite the 800# listed capacity. Just keep in mind that a 15-17'' foot canoe is better for tandem use when also hauling camping gear.
One last thought on canoe outfitting, do affix a short rope( Painters) to either end of the canoe to control the boat when wading upstream, or in over your head. 7' - 10' is about right, just keep them coiled-up out of the way when not in use.

Best Regards
Jim

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 pm

Jim Krueger wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:37 pm
Miquel,
After researching the Old Town Discovery 133 , I see that it lists for nearly $1000, so that price looks a little better, especially if it is in top shape and you can barter other stuff for it in trade to lessen the amount you have to pay for it.
I think it would be a pretty stable and durable canoe, but do realize that if you and your son run any moving streams, or paddle waves on a lake, the canoe will be the most stable if you slip forward off of the seats and onto your knees in the bottom of the boat, as needed. The entrapment hazard is always something every boater needs to think of whether paddling in kayaks or canoes but can be greatly minimized with training and forethought. Certainly no paddle leashes!and no extra ropes or cords laying around in the canoe, or strap-on canoe seats with a mile of extra strap hanging down. Canoe paddlers also need to make sure there is adequate room for their feet&heels underneath the seats when kneeling so they can easily move forward and away when they turn over.
Many of us, of a certain age :D, started floating in canoes, and either stayed with them or switched to kayaks. I am a kayaker myself, but still have an old Blue Hole Canoe. I will look forward to hearing more later if you get the canoe or not, I'll bet you will enjoy it. You should be able to do some overnight floats, but at 13'3", you may have to be more sparing on the cargo despite the 800# listed capacity. Just keep in mind that a 15-17'' foot canoe is better for tandem use when also hauling camping gear.
One last thought on canoe outfitting, do affix a short rope( Painters) to either end of the canoe to control the boat when wading upstream, or in over your head. 7' - 10' is about right, just keep them coiled-up out of the way when not in use.

Best Regards
Jim
Thanks. I have been reading and of course watching youtube on outfitting the canoe. I will add painters and likely other things like air float bags. I have never been in a kayak or canoe in my 62 years on earth. So, this may be a hobby I find is not for me. That being said, I want the right type canoe so it isn't bad equipment that sours me. And I want to research enough I kind of know what to expect.

I have now started thinking a 15' or even 16' may be better. Especially since I am unlikely to carry it stream to stream in the great north. Most likely I will putt around the coves of Table Rock Lake. However, I don't want a bathtub barge, as I do like outdoor activities and may love paddling the right canoe.

It looks like I will pass on the Discovery. Another member on here pointed out it had wear through to the foam in an unusual area, and at that price I feel it should be mint. So I am going to keep looking. Combining the wear, general opinion there are better options, and the price being on the higher end of it's value; I figure I can get a better deal if I keep looking.

Thanks again to you and all that have helped me. I am sure I will have more questions, but will try not to wear everyone out.

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Deuce » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:16 am

It looks like I will pass on the Discovery. Another member on here pointed out it had wear through to the foam in an unusual area, and at that price I feel it should be mint. So I am going to keep looking. Combining the wear, general opinion there are better options, and the price being on the higher end of it's value; I figure I can get a better deal if I keep looking.

Thanks again to you and all that have helped me. I am sure I will have more questions, but will try not to wear everyone out.
[/quote]

Miquel, if you're referring to our conversation I was talking about the Prospector. I definitely think it's worth a look but I agree $900 is a bit high considering the aforementioned issue. Glad you're passing on the Discovery. I don't think you would have been happy with it. I still think if you decide you can stomach paying cash for one that Solo Plus is a strong contender.
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:02 am

Deuce wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:16 am

Miquel, if you're referring to our conversation I was talking about the Prospector. I definitely think it's worth a look but I agree $900 is a bit high considering the aforementioned issue. Glad you're passing on the Discovery. I don't think you would have been happy with it. I still think if you decide you can stomach paying cash for one that Solo Plus is a strong contender.
You are right. In a senior moment I blended the two boats together. The one I emailed and passed on was the Prospector. But the Discovery is out too. It appears I listed reasons for both under the Discovery, but the wear was the Prospector. The Discovery was due to the value and the likelihood it just wasn't what I was going to like.

I am still looking and may try to work something out on the Solo Plus, but I still think I would be more comfortable dealing closer to home.

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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by Deuce » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:40 am

miquel_westano wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:02 am
Deuce wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:16 am

Miquel, if you're referring to our conversation I was talking about the Prospector. I definitely think it's worth a look but I agree $900 is a bit high considering the aforementioned issue. Glad you're passing on the Discovery. I don't think you would have been happy with it. I still think if you decide you can stomach paying cash for one that Solo Plus is a strong contender.
You are right. In a senior moment I blended the two boats together. The one I emailed and passed on was the Prospector. But the Discovery is out too. It appears I listed reasons for both under the Discovery, but the wear was the Prospector. The Discovery was due to the value and the likelihood it just wasn't what I was going to like.

I am still looking and may try to work something out on the Solo Plus, but I still think I would be more comfortable dealing closer to home.
Have you looked at the Prospector in person? Those spots may not be all that bad and might result in a really good deal once the seller realizes he won't get what he's asking. Depending on how long they've been there and how much time the boat has spent in the sun it's possible they could be dealt with easily. Happy to talk with you about that in greater detail if you'd like. I will say if you plan to spend a lot of time on Tablerock the wind will annoy you more in something like a Prospector than it would in something like the Solo Plus.
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Re: Newbie with I am sure the same old question

Post by miquel_westano » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:23 am

Deuce wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:16 am
Have you looked at the Prospector in person? Those spots may not be all that bad and might result in a really good deal once the seller realizes he won't get what he's asking. Depending on how long they've been there and how much time the boat has spent in the sun it's possible they could be dealt with easily. Happy to talk with you about that in greater detail if you'd like. I will say if you plan to spend a lot of time on Tablerock the wind will annoy you more in something like a Prospector than it would in something like the Solo Plus.
No, like the Solo Plus, this one is a ways from home. It is about 4hrs away vs 7 but the poster on CL offered the possibility of coming down and trying to trade it out for a deer rifle. But I don't want him to make a 4hr drive if I am unsure of the canoe and just going to waste his gas and time.

I am hammering the ads close to home and will eventually find the right one at a distance that makes me comfortable. I have this image of me and my grandson in a canoe on a Sat afternoon paddling and catching bluegill. LOL The reality may be falling out and losing tackle.

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