Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

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briansauer
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Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by briansauer » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:35 am

Check out this great article on whether or not to run a particular rapid:

http://www.bobfoote.com/bob/tips/torunornottorun.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by Gordon Kumpuris » Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:45 am

Nice article. Two thoughts....... I use very much the same logic, however if I look at a rapid, evaluate the consequences and if the consequences are very legitimate that I may very well die or get seriously injured I walk. A lot of factors go into this and they are very fluid. Age, physical strength, confidence, air temperature, even your current willingness to get publically trashed factor in. Second thought..... Sometimes you have to take a very pragmatic approach. Currently my personal situation simply does not allow me to get even mildly disabled. The personal consequences to my private and professional life would be more serious than in previous years months. I take that into consideration. For instance. I have walked a rapid I know full well I can probably run simply because I suspect that the consequences of a swim would be a minor disability at best. Sometimes I just can't afford to have even a twisted ankle.
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by briansauer » Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:32 pm

I agree with you Gordon. As a carpet installer, I am especially protective of my knees and shoulders. (That's why I am reluctant to snow ski).
As a relatively new kayaker, I just don't really know what I am ready to try or not. My biggest goals now are to run the Cossatot and other rivers that are a step up from the Mulbery and the Nantahala, but I don't really know if I'm a strong enough paddler or not. I need to rely on other's judgement who can watch my skills and give me advice. I hope we can get a group together this spring / summer to bring new kayakers to run the Cossotot or other comparable rivers that would be good to work up to the Cossotot. I also want to run the drops on the St. Francis sometime. At the last clinic there, the river was flooded and our class skipped the last part of the river.
What rivers in the Ozarks would be good to run to work up to running the Cossotot?
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by okieboater » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:01 pm

One thing to do is work hard on doing eddy turns, ferry moves and peel outs and putting your boat where you want it to go. This usually requires good control of your boat's edges and understanding the various forces acting on your boat depending where you are on the river. IE Hitting an eddy might involve crossing a series of current differentials any one of which might cause you to miss the eddy.

Big Piney is not as technical as it used to be (my opinion, since a lot of the older classic rapids have been blown out by hi water) but at one time it used to be a standard test for moving up the ladder of AR creeks.

That is on the Big Piney at a good level, if you can hit every eddy, make crisp ferry moves back and forth and break each rapid down into multiple moves - you are ready for a Cossatot First Timers run. This includes serious side surfing at the river wide reversal at the top of the Piney, front surfing and a few spins at Surfing rapid. After a lot of practice and confidence building then hitting the eddy above the Cascades and surfing the little wave just above the pin rock, coming back to the eddy and dropping in below the rock and doing a ferry across the face of the big rock back to river right.

There are at least 5 or 6 other Big Piney rapids that have a bunch of eddies to hit and ferry moves to make across to the other side. Most people just blast on down the center, when they do they miss out on a lot of great practice.

Then if you have a strong crew of buds to go along with you, you may want to hit the Tot at a reasonable level. Make your own decision. The good thing about the Tot is you can run the upper down to the falls. If you are making strong moves on the upper including a bunch of eddies on the major drops (Esses example), you can make a personal decision at the Falls Camp ground. Even there, you can run the upper drops pretty safe to the drop just above the Washing Machine. Get out and scout and make your call to run or carry back up. I love the lower Tot run because it has a bunch of really fun rapids, but after running the Washing Machine on down to dead dog beach, most of us feel like we have it made.

I'm not saying this is the defining routine to follow, but if you do your best on the Big Piney to make clean eddies, crisp ferry moves and solid peel outs with you hitting the moves exactly where you were aiming - (I mean you hit all the eddies within inches of the aiming point, not down stream of the feature that causes the eddies) and if the weather and your support team are good to go - most likely you will enjoy the Cossatot.

The Big Piney (as all streams can be) has many danger spots that can kill or hurt you if you screw up. On the other hand most of the fun spots have a pretty good recovery pool if you get into trouble. The big exception to this is the big under cut rock at the Cascades. Even tho I mention this spot as a good test of boat control if you can safely ferry across the face, if you catch an edge you just might flip and die, so making this move is a personal decision only to be made after you have a lot of time and experience in making moves in funny water before you attempt it.

Never under estimate the death potential of a river. Over the last 30 to 40 years I have been blessed to run many classic runs in the US, Central and South America. Been "skairt" a lot, but came close to death on the Mighty Mulberry. And, would have - had it not been for Harrison Sutcliffe and Jon Harrison doing what needed done including CPR.


Every thing is conditional. I have seen a lot of boaters who think just because they run a rapid or even a complete stream - they think they are ready to move up - many of these folks end up swimming or getting into trouble. Remember logs run most of our most difficult runs every spring. Boaters tho are not always as lucky as logs as far as picking and executing the proper line. Precision moves and understanding routes and how to read a specific rapid normally happen as the result of a good training plan that takes out as much of the luck factor and we can.

Probably more of an answer than you were looking for, but something I have seen work a lot of times.

Bottom line, make class 5 moves in water with class 2/3 consequences till you get comfy. Learning the first time how to control your edges and angles in the Esses or Machine on the Tot is normally a humbling experience.

The thing about boating is, each individual makes their own decision about running a river or a rapid. No matter what routine or experience a person has - every rapid is a decision point only they can make to either run or carry. So take the advice given here as only that advice, you make the decision when to go, no one else can make that decision for you.
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by GutIt » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:04 pm

These are all great ways to determine if you want to run a rapid or not. But certainly not the only considerations and I’m a bit surprised these considerations were not mentioned in that article.

You have to remember that you are with a Group. A Team, if you will. As a Team Member, you have a responsibility. It is not only a matter of what consequences you will face, but what consequences your Team will face in the event of a rescue scenario. As a Team Member, you also have to consider this for someone else’s run as well. Everyone may be risking life & limb to pull your chestnuts out of the fire. It may not be just you alone that may suffer consequences. How easy is it to set up rescue points? Can they get to you at most of the sticky spots on the rapid? How cold is it and are you dressed for a protracted dip? (I have a problem with people who show up to paddle the “soup” in cold weather not dressed to help with a rescue if we have to spend a lot of time in the water, because they “never swim”) Where are you in terms of remoteness and how close is medical assistance? Just as an example, running a “difficult” rapid on the Mulberry is not the same as running the same degree of “difficult” rapid on say, the Hailstone. You are a long way from any immediate medical help on the more remote Hailstone and getting you out of there may be a daunting possibility. If you become seriously separated from your boat, how far to walk out of there?

Some years back, Corran Addison suggested that the International Rapid Ratings Scale be changed to include these and other factors. I don’t think it really took off in terms of effecting a change in rapid ratings, but I thought it was a very well considered idea. And an idea that should certainly be considered when scouting a rapid. There a lot of possibilities to consider. He basically suggested that a Class III rapid on the Ocoee, say (Road Run), may be a Class IV on a more remote run. May be a Class V in Africa where medical attention may be marginal at best and if you need a transfusion, blood supplies may be tainted with HIV and you may not be at the top of the food chain (lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my! Not to mention crocs!). Lose a broken leg that could have otherwise been reset and saved, and that Class III takes on a whole new meaning!

I agree that you have to push your limits. There is always a certain degree of risk involved. That’s one reason we do it! The hard part sometimes is knowing to what degree on what particular day and on what particular run.

As for me, it’s pretty simple! I have a very liberal scouting policy. We all know the nursery rhyme every child hears. “When in doubt, scout it out”!

If I know I can run a particular rapid, I’m good! If I know I can’t run a particular rapid, I’m goodl! It’s when I THINK I can run a particular rapid that the fun begins!

Happy fence-sitting to all of us scouters!
Keep Your Stick in the Water!
-Terry-

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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by Butch Crain » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:54 am

Sounds like scouting a rapid is a lot like scouting out life in general - weigh the thrill against the consequences - to yourself and others.

Don't know how much whitewater I'll ever run, but it's cool to lurk in and pick up a few great life lessons.

Now, if I can just get my 23 year old to surf this thread...

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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by Don Harwood » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:09 am

This is all very good advice, from very good paddlers with quite alot of experience.
Take all of this into consideration!
It would also help to take a 2-Day Swiftwater Rescue class, if you have not already.
You learn proper self rescue techniques and develop other skills that help your confidence and judgement.
That way, you can make better decisions on what your are up to running or not!
Developing rescue, first aid, CPR, skills as well as your paddling skills should be considered.
Like a throw rope, it's not so much for you as it is for your paddling partners!
If everyone in your group or team has many of these types of skills, it will help to make you all safer on the river in any circumstances. 8)
Don't push yourself too hard, getting in over your head can take the fun out of it! :hammer:
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by briansauer » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:51 pm

Thanks for all the great advice. The Arkansas Canoe Club continues to amaze me.
I took the swiftwater rescue course last summer with Walter and Marcell. It was fantastic. I still need to buy more rescue gear though (when the economy & work picks up). I used to be a CPR instructor, but I'm not currently certified. I was a field medical Corpsman with the Marine Corps / Navy reserves for 17 years.
I bought a new Hero, and still have my RPM, so surfing is a little difficult and not my main focus. I don't really enjoy surfing as much as others seem to, but I understand that it's great for improving your skills. My combat roll is good, but not bombproof. I know I have a ways to go and I am totally content with class 2 water. I'm considering buying an Aire Force XL inflatable kayak. Mike Stanley swears that you can run bigger water with one of these, since they are more stable. I have a ton of instructional SWR & kayak DVD's and books that I've been studying.
I noticed that longer kayaks tend to dive down into the water on drops after dropping off the boulder on the Nantahala. My hero pogo-sticked, but didn't flip over (what a rush!!) I wonder how it would perform trying to boof over some of the falls on the Cosotot. I would sure like to try it as well as in an inflatable kayak.
I have definately noticed that flipping over in a class 3 rapid/hole is no fun (Nantahala Falls). The water really grabs you and throws you around and can give you some nice bruises. I think it is a necessary experience though (if it's safe enough), to get you used to that kind of water, even though it's a bit out of your comfort zone. If you make it through without flipping, it's a great confidence builder.
Any more comments / suggestions???
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by okieboater » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:55 pm

I have a RPM Max since 1996 and it is my favorite kayak for most runs, mainly cause it is a surfing machine. The Hero series is listed as a play boat surfing hull on a Creek boat top so it should be surfing like a champ.

Surfing is a good test of edge control and that is the main reason I feel it paves the way for running real WW.

My bet is your problems surfing in a RPM or Hero is not the boat.

Be sure you hit ACC Canoe school or get some instruction before if you can.

At the clinics I teach, we use surfing as a fun thing to do and as an example of how well the students captured the techniques for boat control we are showing them.
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by briansauer » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:03 pm

The nose of my RPM dives into the surf too much. It's hard for me to think of an RPM being a surfing machine. I haven't really tried surfing in the Hero yet. I definately need much more practice though. I've been through 4 clinics now and I will hit 2 or 3 next spring. I have a new dry suit that makes it so much more fun in the cold water. Last spring at the MWA clinic on the St. Francis, it snowed on us! Man that hot chocolate sure hit the spot!
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by Owl » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:19 pm

My first boat was an RPM Max and I couldn't surf the thing worth squat although I admit it was probably more my fault and not the boat's. I mainly had trouble getting blown off a wave if my angle was just a tad wrong. I think the displacement hull "grabs" more water than a planing hull boat.

I sold the Max and now have a Wavesport Diesel 75 and a Jackson 4Fun. Although I really like both boats, I'm especially fond of the 4Fun as a great surfer and a very forgiving boat that I recommend every chance I get to folks looking for a river-running/play type boat.

Now if we'd just get some rain...

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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by GutIt » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:50 pm

Well, I guess I’m off the subject a bit here, but who’s counting?

In its heyday, briansauer, the RPM was THE boat to have. One of the first generation playboats. I have seen people do some amazing things with them. Swap ends, you name it! Obviously, its heyday isn’t over! I’ve paddled a few, but never owned one. One of my best friends in the world kept one specifically for Trigger Gap. He would surf that thing all day there.

Not to get into displacement vs. planning hulls, but I will say this. Regardless of how you feel about surfing, if you boat long enough, you are going to discover that you will wish you had spent plenty of time doing it. Eventually, you are going to paddle directly into that terminal hole and it’s on! You will have to surf your way out of it. You will need to know the aforementioned edge handling (though RPM’s have no edges) to get yourself out of it. You will need to know how to move around in a hole, and from which side to make your escape. The time to know this is not when it happens in the middle of a Run and your only hope is to pull the plug only to find yourself in the hole with your beloved boat beating the crap out of you! Better to get this going on in a more “controlled” situation before it happens. You may find that it is convenient to be able to surf your way across the river to set up a line. Sometimes known as a “jet ferry”.

I would be willing to bet that you would like surfing a lot better as your technique progresses. There are techniques to deal with “pearling” (nosediving). Any boat will do that, though some maybe more than others. Sometimes short boats are worse. Once you know what to do, it’s no longer a problem. It’s a lot like boating in general. The more you learn, the more fun and safer it gets for you. Remember how much more fun you had once you started rolling instead of having to swim every time?
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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by paddledog » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:28 pm

Play boating is just practicing your panic moves.
Fighting for peace........
Isn't that like screaming for quiet?

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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by kayakcono » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:52 am

I must beg to differ on the "RPM having No edges" The whole stern is an "edge" , drop yer tail and get out of about anything ! Now a Rocker, really has no edges ! I love em both, though my MEGA Rocker often feels like a giant Beach ball when gaught sideways in a hole ! They may both be called displacement hull, but the good old RPM MAX was, and is a surfin machine !! What'll they come up with next ?? In the last 20 years some amazing boat's have come along -- I look forward to the next 20 ! Freddie

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Re: Deciding whether to run a rapid or not

Post by okieboater » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:11 pm

Yup, until I learned proper posture (RPM's will give instant feedback on bad posture) I spent a lot of time looking at the sky going off drops in my RPM Max. Broken Nose on the Ocoee was a real challenge till I finally learned to lean forward with my chest. Washing Machine and the Falls area in general on the Tot will also teach good RPM posture..

Having learned how to use that flat RPM tail, I am gonna stick by my statement that the RPM series is a surfing machine. And it will spin, not as easily as a Jackson Fun play boat but for regular old school style front surfing RPM's work really well.
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